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PostPosted: Sun Feb 22, 2009 9:16 pm 
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So today I was at the Chicago auto show and I spoke with someone from Pontiac and I asked them about the 3800 and why it was not going to be used anymore. This engine is one of the most reliable and widely used engines. Now they have replaced it with a 3.6 that makes 265hp. Some might say that this is good, smaller engine and more hp without the S/C. Well if you look at the numbers, the base G8 gets 15mpg city and 25mpg on the highway, whereas the S/C 3800 gets 18/28. 3mpg might not seem like a lot, but on a 18 gallon tank, that is an extra 54 miles you can go. So lets see, you can choose to have 265 hp and 15/25 mpg, or 260 hp 18/28 mpg. Is it just me, or does anyone else think that the loss of the 3800 will take away from the appeal of the G8 base model?

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PostPosted: Mon Feb 23, 2009 12:23 am 
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Now put the 3800 in the almost 4000 lb G8 and it will get worse fuel economy than the 3.6L.
That's an extra 400 or so lbs over the GP.

Other than that I don't see why they'd want to scrap the 3800 as far as reliability goes. I think it's the power/liter thing and the fact that seem to be using the 3.6 for almost everything now. Saves on manufacturing, all that needs to be done to it is tuning. 250hp for G8, G6 GXP. 300hp for Camaro, CTS, STS.

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PostPosted: Mon Feb 23, 2009 1:11 am 
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Actually the V6 in the G8 has 265, they told me today. I'm Guessing that the others have it also, And this way they do not have to S/C it to make it a competitor for other cars, I mean 265 hp on a N/A V6 is pretty impressive, I just think there is more loyalty to the 3800. G8 Will probably go to a 2 door if all of the GP guys take the time to speak up. Supply and Demand.

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PostPosted: Tue Feb 24, 2009 5:01 pm 
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I heard another reason why they stopped the 3800 was because it would cost too much money to redevelop it to meet the new emissions guidelines (?)

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PostPosted: Tue Feb 24, 2009 10:13 pm 
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Yea, and the 3.6 makes power more efficiently as well. I mean the 3800 needed a supercharger to get to 260 while the 3.6 is at 265 without it.

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PostPosted: Tue Mar 03, 2009 8:50 am 
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The 3.6 is down on torque, 248 ft lbs to the S/C 3800's 285 ft lbs, plus it doesn't reach peak hp until 6300 RPM. That's why the GT is fast, it only has 262 hp but it puts out a whopping 385 ft lbs of torque. The bigger motor in the GXP puts out 415hp but the torque is the same, at 415 ft lbs. Torque is twisting force, which translates to better acceleration and it makes the car feel more powerful.

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PostPosted: Tue Mar 03, 2009 10:20 am 
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I thought the GT had more hp, but it doesn't matter they are all fast

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PostPosted: Tue Mar 03, 2009 1:13 pm 
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It should be 362 hp, not 262.

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PostPosted: Tue Mar 03, 2009 11:59 pm 
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haha, sounds better

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PostPosted: Wed Mar 18, 2009 10:05 am 
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The LY7 Alloytec is a really nice motor! It has a lower peak torque figure but it reaches that peak torque very early in the rpm range, it feels more torquey than a 3800 if you can believe it.

I've tuned Alloytec 3600s in the Cadillac CTS and GMC Acadia and they respond well to a basic air intake and ECM tune.

If anyone has a V6 G8 in the Toronto area and wants to be the beta tester, email me willoverkill@gmail.com and I can offer you a stellar pricepoint! They'll be mail-order available shortly thereafter.

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 01, 2009 4:07 pm 
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Overkill wrote:
it feels more torquey than a 3800 if you can believe it.

i have to disagree....my mom has the 304hp version in her cadillac, its no comparison


PonchoGTP wrote:
Now put the 3800 in the almost 4000 lb G8 and it will get worse fuel economy than the 3.6L.
That's an extra 400 or so lbs over the GP.

I used to get 30mpg highway in my almost 4000lbs Park Ave...of course its not at the current emissions specs but i don't think it'd change too much

The G8 gets an extra gear and the Cadillac 2 extra
but with that said i think they are all pretty comparable...

MajikNinja37 wrote:
Yea, and the 3.6 makes power more efficiently as well. I mean the 3800 needed a supercharger to get to 260 while the 3.6 is at 265 without it.


In a RWD application it would likely be higher...

I hate when people say...oh that supercharged 3.8 v-6 only has 260hp, those things suck.

given the opportunity to lay it alll out...there would be no need for the V8 in the GT and GXP...yes i said it :grin:

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Last edited by kshef on Wed Apr 01, 2009 4:15 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 01, 2009 4:46 pm 
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I am not saying that they suck, I am simply saying that by looking at it at a glance, the LY7 seems like the better choice because it makes bigger numbers without the extra help from the supercharger. Provided I do not know what the S/C 3800 could do if it was in a RWD car, it is more appealing if the entry level does not need extra help to make power.

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 01, 2009 11:01 pm 
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i understand. i think a lot of people look at the numbers and then just pass it off as weak.

the original 97 GP GTP had 300hp, but was detuned to 240hp for drivetrain longevity.

a factory intercooled gen 5 or tvs equipped 3800 would have certainly required a reengineering of the 4t65e


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Last edited by kshef on Wed Apr 01, 2009 11:01 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 02, 2009 3:42 pm 
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kshef wrote:
i understand. i think a lot of people look at the numbers and then just pass it off as weak.

the original 97 GP GTP had 300hp, but was detuned to 240hp for drivetrain longevity.

I have to disagree with you there, the '97 gtp never came with 300hp, however the 1996 grand prix 300 gpx concept car did.

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PostPosted: Thu Apr 02, 2009 6:14 pm 
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That's what they meant Brian.

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PostPosted: Fri Apr 03, 2009 11:10 am 
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 03, 2009 4:35 pm 
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I noticed lol. The 300GPX was a 300+ HP car. It was also AWD too. As you know, the 300GPX was the concept that lead to the 97-03 Grand Prix.

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PostPosted: Sun Apr 12, 2009 2:12 am 
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i think our cars should've been intercooled and smaller pulliesas stock 300+hp :twisted:

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