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 Post subject: LTFT on a 04 Comp G
PostPosted: Tue Jun 09, 2009 12:29 am 
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[noob ?]
Can I disconnect my MAF while tuning for LTFT?
[/noob ?]

TIA!

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 Post subject: Re: LTFT on a 04 Comp G
PostPosted: Tue Jun 09, 2009 12:32 am 
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ltft?

there is a stand alone tune that kicks in when the maf is disconnected

well it worked on my 00

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 Post subject: Re: LTFT on a 04 Comp G
PostPosted: Tue Jun 09, 2009 12:35 am 
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LTFT = Long Term Fuel Trim

All the 3800 guides I've found are for the series 2. On the series 3 the throttle body is drive-by-wire and all the sensors are in the MAF tube. If I unplug it it would disable my IAT as well.

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 Post subject: Re: LTFT on a 04 Comp G
PostPosted: Tue Jun 09, 2009 12:42 am 
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pm FastKatt

he is very skilled at 04+ tunning

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 Post subject: Re: LTFT on a 04 Comp G
PostPosted: Tue Jun 09, 2009 12:42 am 
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Thanks!

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 Post subject: Re: LTFT on a 04 Comp G
PostPosted: Tue Jun 09, 2009 1:05 am 
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why do you want to? are you doing wideband tuning?

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 Post subject: Re: LTFT on a 04 Comp G
PostPosted: Tue Jun 09, 2009 1:43 am 
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No wideband yet. I'm running on the lean side and I would like to get my LTFT as close to 0 as I can. I know I can't dial in my WOT until I have one, so I'm trying to do the best I can for now.

On my current set up minus the maf, I was seeing 3* kr that looks like flash knock from running lean. Then I installed the 85mm maf and I see 7.9 after fuel trims settled in. First thing I did was put a 3.6 pulley on and after my ltft settled I'm still seeing 7.9 kr. It happens in 2 places, the top of first at WOT and in the middle of 3rd when I'm not accelerating, just cruising. It's not constat, it's just there then gone.

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 Post subject: Re: LTFT on a 04 Comp G
PostPosted: Tue Jun 09, 2009 6:38 pm 
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I would find someone very experienced with HPTuners and have him/her tune your car. That is the route I have gone with 2 vehicles now. Otherwise you'll be lost in a swarm of maps and things could turn very bad.

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 Post subject: Re: LTFT on a 04 Comp G
PostPosted: Tue Jun 09, 2009 7:35 pm 
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Having someone else do it has crossed my mind a few times. Everything I've done so far has been on my own and I really want to learn so I can still say that. :grin:

I'm pretty sure that dialing in LTFT is the way to start, but all the write ups seem to be on the series 2 3800. The series 3 has some different stuff than what is listed in those guides.

I PM'd Fastkatt. Hopefully he'll point me in the right direction. :toothy7:

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 Post subject: Re: LTFT on a 04 Comp G
PostPosted: Wed Jun 10, 2009 7:14 am 
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I've got my LTFT dialed in with the MAF plugged in.
As a matter of fact, I've done no tuning with the MAF unplugged...
I have a larger MAF, I was just about at the point of "needing" to install it, $$$ ran out to throw at the car...
It's been sitting in the garage, I've used the time to dial in trims & tweak my timing tables.

What Miranda said about HPTuners is bias...
You can get the same tune out of a PT that you can from HPT!
I think that was a rude statement, & a slap in the face to us PT users, we are doing just fine thanks...

Are you using Eddie's SDT software? What are you using to scan/log?

So, as for tuning the Larger MAF, my guess would be you'd be fine to dial in with it plugged in.
(Personally, I can't see you dialing in with it unplugged anyway...)

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 Post subject: Re: LTFT on a 04 Comp G
PostPosted: Wed Jun 10, 2009 11:51 am 
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Thanks FastKatt.

I'm using HP Tuners and I've been scanning like a mad man. For the past 3 weeks I've done nothing but scan for different parameters and get a solid look aat what everything is doing. I've also read up on more guides and walk-throughs than I can count. Some the 3800 specific ones call for something wierd like unpluging the MAF. They are all very different and some steps call for modification to tables I didn't have. Not much specific info for using HPT with the L32. <- Frustrating for a noob.

I gotta tell you, I'm a moron. Right now I'm doing everything on a Mac Book. There's a song and dance moving info from the Windows side of my machine to my Mac side. It's the headache I live with being a Mac dork. I've loked at that sticky several times and cursed it because it wouldn't work for me. It wasn't until you mentioned it that I realized that I've been trying to use that Modifier on the Mac side.

So not that I've removed my head from my posterior, I'll take a hard look at the scan data thingy. If I'm still lost I'll chime back in.


Thanks again.

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 Post subject: Re: LTFT on a 04 Comp G
PostPosted: Wed Jun 10, 2009 12:26 pm 
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Billy I didn't mean only HP tuners. But a tuner that has the same capabilities also.. don't take that the wrong way..

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 Post subject: Re: LTFT on a 04 Comp G
PostPosted: Wed Jun 10, 2009 1:26 pm 
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WHen you tune for LTFT, your adjustments are made to the MAF chart so unplugging the MAF will defeat the purpose. Unplugging the MAF is used to get a VE Tune which I'm not sure whether or not can be done on an 04+ GP.

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 Post subject: Re: LTFT on a 04 Comp G
PostPosted: Wed Jun 10, 2009 1:30 pm 
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COrrect. YOu don't want to unplug the MAF sensor. You do that only for a VE tune, which you don't need unless you dramatically change how the engine breathes.

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 Post subject: Re: LTFT on a 04 Comp G
PostPosted: Wed Jun 10, 2009 2:31 pm 
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You guys rock! I'm stuck at Saturn getting my wife's Outlook eyeballed. I'm gonna be a busy dude when I get home.

~I own a Pontiac & a Saturn talk about no love from GM!

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 Post subject: Re: LTFT on a 04 Comp G
PostPosted: Wed Jun 10, 2009 3:49 pm 
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Well...you're OK with the Saturn. But, yeah...tough love on the Pontiac.

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 Post subject: Re: LTFT on a 04 Comp G
PostPosted: Wed Jun 10, 2009 3:49 pm 
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Here you go. The best tuning instructions were writing by Jerry H. At one time he was the heart of the PowrTuner forums. Using the methods he detialed in his notebook, he was able to get his 99 gtp to run 13.5 with no KR on 87 octane while getting 36 MPG. He was later turned on by Beyerch because Jerry made a simple commit about the state of the PowrTuner. Jerry moved onto to HPT after that. I just read his last post there where they pissed him off so it looks like he bailed. Jerry is the greatest tuner I've seen. I can't believe the guys at HPT were such dicks to him. They must have had a problem with him since he came from the PT. Anyway, here is a link to his notebook that someone compiled on Wiki.

http://wiki.opentuner3800.com/index.php?title=Main_Page

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 Post subject: Re: LTFT on a 04 Comp G
PostPosted: Wed Jun 10, 2009 4:59 pm 
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Thank you, sir. I'll read up this evening. Big reads suck on a cell. ( Still stuck at Saturn)

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 Post subject: Re: LTFT on a 04 Comp G
PostPosted: Thu Jun 11, 2009 10:26 am 
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Bartman wrote:
Thank you, sir. I'll read up this evening. Big reads suck on a cell. ( Still stuck at Saturn)


Had a brand new Saturn Sky Redline Turbo next to me all the way to work this morning. Very nice. Red with black racing stripes with the top down. Still had the temp tag on the back.

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 Post subject: Re: LTFT on a 04 Comp G
PostPosted: Thu Jun 11, 2009 6:02 pm 
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Those things are hot! Better than the convertable soltice, but the new hard top is sex on wheels.

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 Post subject: Re: LTFT on a 04 Comp G
PostPosted: Fri Jun 12, 2009 6:20 pm 
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hard top > convertible. i probably would have gotten a solstice gxp or sky redline if they were hard tops last year.

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 Post subject: Re: LTFT on a 04 Comp G
PostPosted: Tue Jun 16, 2009 12:03 am 
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In the 3800 Open tuner notebook, Tuning the VE Table section:

I need to unplug the maf to prevent from going into Power Enrichment (PE). Can I just zero out all the tables (except for the PE Enable TPS Hot table at 100) ??

Quote:
With the MAF disconnected, the bin we created flashed into your PCM and your fuel trims cleared (done either while you flash the bin or afterwards, it doesn't matter when, but it is important that you reset the fuel trims before you start driving), you are ready to do some driving. Remember we cleared the fuel trims. Well, now it's time that we gave the car a chance to relearn them. Because of the disconnected MAF, your car may be running either a little rough or like crap, and if you happen to be scanning, you will note double digit negative numbers because by default, the factory setup is to run very rich in the event of a MAF failure. We'll be correcting for this very phenomenon. Learn time varies from car to car and year to year, but as a minimum, I would suggest that you drive at least 15-60 minutes, stop and turn off the car for at least 30 seconds, drive another 15- 60 minutes and check to see if the trims have settled in. In general, it is not uncommon to drive for several hours and throw in a couple of restarts. The longer you give it to learn, the better the results.

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 Post subject: Re: LTFT on a 04 Comp G
PostPosted: Tue Jun 16, 2009 12:16 am 
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I can't help you with that one, I never did a VE tune. Maybe FastKatt will know.

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 Post subject: Re: LTFT on a 04 Comp G
PostPosted: Tue Jun 16, 2009 12:57 am 
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Blackwood,
Just out of curiosity, what tables does the PT offer for PE?

HPT has:
PE Enable Delay vs. TPS
PE Enable TPS Hot
Power Enrichment Base AFR vs. ECT
Fuel Adder vs. TPS
Fuel Adder vs. RPM vs. Time

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 Post subject: Re: LTFT on a 04 Comp G
PostPosted: Tue Jun 16, 2009 6:33 am 
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Nor I...
I tried to start one, but couldn't keep the car running w/o the MAF

I may give it a go in the future...

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