Welcome Guest, It appears you are not registered with our community. To gain full access to the forums Click Here and register today!

It is currently Fri May 25, 2012 1:50 pm

All times are UTC - 6 hours [ DST ]




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 21 posts ] 
Author Message
 Post subject: dyno tune disaster
PostPosted: Sat Jun 18, 2011 6:44 pm 
Offline
Newbie
Newbie
User avatar

Joined: Tue Jul 14, 2009 9:03 pm
Posts: 23
Location: Fredericksburg Va
Thanks given: 0 time
Thanked: 0 time
Age: 50
Name: ken
Last Monday I took my car to a large shop to be tuned by a respected tuner that is well known. An employee of the company placed the car on the dyno-wheel and worked the tap-shift feature during the pulls. The tuner was in the car for the first run and stood outside for the other runs. The first three pulls went OK with the performance of the car slowly being increased. However, there was an issue concerning the TC locking and unlocking. On the fourth pull I heard the car go through the gears to third and then they went WOT. At the very end of the pull I heard the car jump in rpms like crazy!!! The car was screaming. It was like a manual being put into neutral and then the gas pedal being pushed to the floor.
The tuner said that right after the pull, the car downshifted into second gear all by itself. He could not offer any explanation of this event. According to what I saw on the graph the rpm went off the screen and the speed of the car was around 137 when it was downshifted.
The car was towed home and we have removed the front head. We have done a seal test with two of the cylinders failing. This is as far as we have gone. We are trying to determine what to do next.
I have spoken to a really good transmission guy about the downshift event, the TC locking and unlocking and the TC being locked up during the 4th run. I will be contacting the TC Company next week.
The tuner has sent me 4 files, but I am unable to open 3 of them because they are HPTs and I don’t have the software.
Can anybody out there give me a hand with this situation? The shop will not return my phone calls, and the tuner was out of town last week, so I am hoping to hear from him this week.
I can forward the files to you via email.

_________________
2006 GXP almost finished! I/H/C/E, TEP w/3.29s, small shot


Top
 Profile   
 
 Post subject: Re: dyno tune disaster
PostPosted: Sat Jun 18, 2011 11:30 pm 
Offline
GPONA VIP Member
GPONA VIP Member

Joined: Fri Feb 15, 2008 10:53 am
Posts: 5963
Location: West Bend, WI
Thanks given: 0 time
Thanked: 2 times
Age: 35
Name: Joe
What is strange is that the PCM won't allow a downshift like that. I have to believe that something inside the transmission failed. Even if the shift selector would have been placed in "2," the PCM would have said no.

_________________
One Big Ass Mistake America

Image


Top
 Profile   
 
 Post subject: Re: dyno tune disaster
PostPosted: Sun Jun 19, 2011 12:22 am 
Offline
GPONA VIP Member
GPONA VIP Member
User avatar

Joined: Mon Mar 24, 2008 10:36 pm
Posts: 6284
Location: Mt. Pleasant, MI
Thanks given: 7 times
Thanked: 15 times
Age: 24
Name: Tom Hay
this is true in the PCM there is no way it would allow the down shift. the maximum down shift speed to second is 77mph

i got that from looking at a compG trans file

_________________
Image
92 LeBaron Convert: Turbo 3L 97 Grand Prix GT 4dr "Frankenstein": L67 4t65 swap
97 Grand Marquis: Summer DD 99 Grand Prix GTP: Top Swap Beater


Last edited by Mater on Sun Jun 19, 2011 1:56 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Top
 Profile   
 
 Post subject: Re: dyno tune disaster
PostPosted: Sun Jun 19, 2011 12:27 am 
Offline
GPONA VIP Member
GPONA VIP Member

Joined: Fri Feb 15, 2008 10:53 am
Posts: 5963
Location: West Bend, WI
Thanks given: 0 time
Thanked: 2 times
Age: 35
Name: Joe
That would probably be max speed. Either way, 137mph will never get a downshift to second. I almost wonder if the guy doing the tuning fat fingered something, and screwed up a shift point, or allowance. We need to see those files.

_________________
One Big Ass Mistake America

Image


Top
 Profile   
 
 Post subject: Re: dyno tune disaster
PostPosted: Sun Jun 19, 2011 2:37 am 
Offline
GPONA Addict
GPONA Addict
Donating Member
Donating Member

Joined: Mon Jul 21, 2008 9:14 pm
Posts: 1182
Location: Stoney Creek,Ontario
Thanks given: 0 time
Thanked: 2 times
Age: 53
What is with these bozons?
Your "tuner" screwed up.
As soon as the car started showing issues with T/C locking and unlocking,he should have backed off.
Attach the files to a post.
I'd love to see them.

_________________
2005 GT owner [Non S/C] with a "big DIC".
Two years later and I still love the car.
Thanks Pontiac...Bleen is keen!


Top
 Profile   
 
 Post subject: Re: dyno tune disaster
PostPosted: Sun Jun 19, 2011 1:55 pm 
Offline
GPONA VIP Member
GPONA VIP Member
User avatar

Joined: Mon Mar 24, 2008 10:36 pm
Posts: 6284
Location: Mt. Pleasant, MI
Thanks given: 7 times
Thanked: 15 times
Age: 24
Name: Tom Hay
hotrodolds wrote:
That would probably be max speed. Either way, 137mph will never get a downshift to second. I almost wonder if the guy doing the tuning fat fingered something, and screwed up a shift point, or allowance. We need to see those files.



yup my bad ment maximum

_________________
Image
92 LeBaron Convert: Turbo 3L 97 Grand Prix GT 4dr "Frankenstein": L67 4t65 swap
97 Grand Marquis: Summer DD 99 Grand Prix GTP: Top Swap Beater


Top
 Profile   
 
 Post subject: Re: dyno tune disaster
PostPosted: Sun Jun 19, 2011 10:40 pm 
Offline
Newbie
Newbie
User avatar

Joined: Tue Jul 14, 2009 9:03 pm
Posts: 23
Location: Fredericksburg Va
Thanks given: 0 time
Thanked: 0 time
Age: 50
Name: ken
I just received a picture of one of the downloads, peak rpm reached over 8100rpm!

_________________
2006 GXP almost finished! I/H/C/E, TEP w/3.29s, small shot


Top
 Profile   
 
 Post subject: Re: dyno tune disaster
PostPosted: Mon Jun 20, 2011 6:41 am 
Offline
GPONA VIP Member
GPONA VIP Member

Joined: Fri Feb 15, 2008 10:53 am
Posts: 5963
Location: West Bend, WI
Thanks given: 0 time
Thanked: 2 times
Age: 35
Name: Joe
That engine will be absolutely toast. I don't think I'd reuse ANYTHING off of it.

_________________
One Big Ass Mistake America

Image


Top
 Profile   
 
 Post subject: Re: dyno tune disaster
PostPosted: Mon Jun 20, 2011 1:38 pm 
Offline
GPONA VIP Member
GPONA VIP Member
User avatar

Joined: Mon Mar 24, 2008 10:36 pm
Posts: 6284
Location: Mt. Pleasant, MI
Thanks given: 7 times
Thanked: 15 times
Age: 24
Name: Tom Hay
yeah that is wow

i would reuse the cam, heads (if the valves did not make contact going that fast may have had valve float), cam, and the block other then that i would not risk any of the parts after being abused liek that. this includes not reusing the valve springs

one thing i want to know how did the neigne even make it to 8100rpm did they have the rev limiter removed?

_________________
Image
92 LeBaron Convert: Turbo 3L 97 Grand Prix GT 4dr "Frankenstein": L67 4t65 swap
97 Grand Marquis: Summer DD 99 Grand Prix GTP: Top Swap Beater


Top
 Profile   
 
 Post subject: Re: dyno tune disaster
PostPosted: Mon Jun 20, 2011 11:57 pm 
Offline
Newbie
Newbie
User avatar

Joined: Tue Jul 14, 2009 9:03 pm
Posts: 23
Location: Fredericksburg Va
Thanks given: 0 time
Thanked: 0 time
Age: 50
Name: ken
Good questions and thanks for your input. I now have the files in a excel spreadsheet if anybody is interested in seeing them. PM me your email address and I will send them to you.

_________________
2006 GXP almost finished! I/H/C/E, TEP w/3.29s, small shot


Top
 Profile   
 
 Post subject: Re: dyno tune disaster
PostPosted: Tue Jun 21, 2011 6:25 pm 
Offline
Custom Harley Rider
Custom Harley Rider
Donating Member
Donating Member
User avatar

Joined: Sat Dec 29, 2007 11:22 am
Posts: 7475
Location: Chicagoland
Thanks given: 0 time
Thanked: 11 times
Your best bet would be to contact a lawyer since the tuner doesn't want to help you on this matter.

_________________
Bright Red 2008 G8 GT
Image
Mods: DRCUSTOMPARTS Center Gauge Bezel
Superchips ECM/TCM Tune- Volant CAI
Solo Axlebacks - HID's
Holden V8 Badges
My Website


Top
 Profile   
 
 Post subject: Re: dyno tune disaster
PostPosted: Wed Jun 22, 2011 6:22 pm 
Offline
Newbie
Newbie
User avatar

Joined: Tue Jul 14, 2009 9:03 pm
Posts: 23
Location: Fredericksburg Va
Thanks given: 0 time
Thanked: 0 time
Age: 50
Name: ken
There is a folder in the HPTuners editor called Transmission Diagnostics where you can find a few parameters that restrict gear command. Our STOCK numbers are set at 5500 rpm and 62 mph. The rpm and mph must be UNDER these two parameters to enable gear control. MY current modified file on the car is set at 6200 rpm and 188 mph. Looking at my scan, the mph was at 145 mph, below the 188 requirement, and rpm was at 6050 which is under the 6200 rpm requirement which will allow gear command. This explains not only how it is possible to occur but why guys with stock trans tunes or just ratio changes cannot command a downshift when going over a certain speed.

The TC used in my transmission package is not designed to be locked during WOT. The TC was locked during the dyno testing and could have been damaged. Debris could of then of been throw back into the transmission.

__________________

_________________
2006 GXP almost finished! I/H/C/E, TEP w/3.29s, small shot


Top
 Profile   
 
 Post subject: Re: dyno tune disaster
PostPosted: Wed Jun 22, 2011 6:38 pm 
Offline
Custom Harley Rider
Custom Harley Rider
Donating Member
Donating Member
User avatar

Joined: Sat Dec 29, 2007 11:22 am
Posts: 7475
Location: Chicagoland
Thanks given: 0 time
Thanked: 11 times
The TC is outside the trans so there's no way for any debris to get inside if it fails.

_________________
Bright Red 2008 G8 GT
Image
Mods: DRCUSTOMPARTS Center Gauge Bezel
Superchips ECM/TCM Tune- Volant CAI
Solo Axlebacks - HID's
Holden V8 Badges
My Website


Top
 Profile   
 
 Post subject: Re: dyno tune disaster
PostPosted: Wed Jun 22, 2011 11:11 pm 
Offline
GPONA VIP Member
GPONA VIP Member
User avatar

Joined: Mon Mar 24, 2008 10:36 pm
Posts: 6284
Location: Mt. Pleasant, MI
Thanks given: 7 times
Thanked: 15 times
Age: 24
Name: Tom Hay
actualy debits can go back into the trans as trans fluid is what locks the conveter by flowing in two directions.

it is sounding more and more like a giant clusterfuck of a mess you are in that realy sucks :(

_________________
Image
92 LeBaron Convert: Turbo 3L 97 Grand Prix GT 4dr "Frankenstein": L67 4t65 swap
97 Grand Marquis: Summer DD 99 Grand Prix GTP: Top Swap Beater


Top
 Profile   
 
 Post subject: Re: dyno tune disaster
PostPosted: Thu Jun 23, 2011 12:01 am 
Offline
Custom Harley Rider
Custom Harley Rider
Donating Member
Donating Member
User avatar

Joined: Sat Dec 29, 2007 11:22 am
Posts: 7475
Location: Chicagoland
Thanks given: 0 time
Thanked: 11 times
Small particles can flow in the fluid but he made it sound like the TC blew huge pieces into the trans.

_________________
Bright Red 2008 G8 GT
Image
Mods: DRCUSTOMPARTS Center Gauge Bezel
Superchips ECM/TCM Tune- Volant CAI
Solo Axlebacks - HID's
Holden V8 Badges
My Website


Top
 Profile   
 
 Post subject: Re: dyno tune disaster
PostPosted: Thu Jun 23, 2011 1:36 am 
Offline
GPONA VIP Member
GPONA VIP Member
User avatar

Joined: Sun Sep 13, 2009 3:48 am
Posts: 5231
Location: Cleveland Ohio
Thanks given: 4 times
Thanked: 43 times
Age: 22
Name: Matt Litke
Baseball bat justice?

...And this is why I don't let other people touch my stuff. In all honesty though, sorry to hear about his. That's never a fun way to break something, especially if it wasn't YOU that broke it.

_________________
Image
Dubs:00 VW GTI VR6, Low and Slow 91 VW GTI 8v, Shave the Bay!! 91 VW Cabriolet 8v, bitch Basket
GP's:04 GP GT, Past now G-Ma's Girlfriend's 97 GP GT, "Project Pink Power"


Top
 Profile   
 
 Post subject: Re: dyno tune disaster
PostPosted: Thu Jun 23, 2011 3:32 pm 
Offline
GPONA VIP Member
GPONA VIP Member
User avatar

Joined: Mon Mar 24, 2008 10:36 pm
Posts: 6284
Location: Mt. Pleasant, MI
Thanks given: 7 times
Thanked: 15 times
Age: 24
Name: Tom Hay
Don_Rome wrote:
Small particles can flow in the fluid but he made it sound like the TC blew huge pieces into the trans.



you'd be surprised fot he size f the junk that could get in

_________________
Image
92 LeBaron Convert: Turbo 3L 97 Grand Prix GT 4dr "Frankenstein": L67 4t65 swap
97 Grand Marquis: Summer DD 99 Grand Prix GTP: Top Swap Beater


Top
 Profile   
 
 Post subject: Re: dyno tune disaster
PostPosted: Thu Jun 23, 2011 3:43 pm 
Offline
The Man in Black
The Man in Black
Donating Member
Donating Member
User avatar

Joined: Sun Jan 27, 2008 10:42 pm
Posts: 13210
Location: Bunnell Florida
Thanks given: 0 time
Thanked: 13 times
Age: 23
Name: AParrette
my truck needed a trans flush when the new tranny went in. the torque converter literally exploded so i went w/o one for 4 months until the partials literally clogged the entire tranny cooling system

_________________
Image


Top
 Profile   
 
 Post subject: Re: dyno tune disaster
PostPosted: Thu Jun 30, 2011 4:29 pm 
Offline
GPONA SE Member
GPONA SE Member

Joined: Sat May 28, 2011 2:10 am
Posts: 69
Location: Northern michigan
Thanks given: 0 time
Thanked: 0 time
any updates on this?!

_________________
2004 White CompG CAI, 180* tstat, 104s, 3.5", Tuned. 0*kr WOT


Top
 Profile   
 
 Post subject: Re: dyno tune disaster
PostPosted: Sat Jul 02, 2011 7:58 am 
Offline
Newbie
Newbie
User avatar

Joined: Tue Jul 14, 2009 9:03 pm
Posts: 23
Location: Fredericksburg Va
Thanks given: 0 time
Thanked: 0 time
Age: 50
Name: ken
I have hired an attorney and have filed warrant in debt with the court. Learning to live as a one car family.

_________________
2006 GXP almost finished! I/H/C/E, TEP w/3.29s, small shot


Top
 Profile   
 
 Post subject: Re: dyno tune disaster
PostPosted: Tue Jul 05, 2011 5:33 am 
Offline
GPONA SE Member
GPONA SE Member

Joined: Sat May 28, 2011 2:10 am
Posts: 69
Location: Northern michigan
Thanks given: 0 time
Thanked: 0 time
Hope everything works out!!

_________________
2004 White CompG CAI, 180* tstat, 104s, 3.5", Tuned. 0*kr WOT


Top
 Profile   
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 21 posts ] 

All times are UTC - 6 hours [ DST ]


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
© 2008 phpbbstylists.com
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group

phpBB SEO
[ Time : 0.129s | 19 Queries | GZIP : On ]
augmentative
augmentative