Hello All:
Has anybody out there installed the F-Body brake kit from ZZ Performance to a 2004 Grand Prix with stock 16" wheels?
(1) If so, was there any issues ?
(2) Will Duel Piston F-body caliper work with the front current 11.7 stock rotors or do you also need the 12" rotors?
(3) Any issues with stock brake lines to F-body calipers fitting problems etc...?
(4) I was looking at my front stock brakes and noticed that the clearance between the inner wheel circumference and the stock brake caliper is like 1/8" if that (thight fit). If the 12" rotors are used with F-body duel piston caliper wouldn't the 12" rotor make the caliper go out more and hit the inner circumfrence of the stock 16" wheel?
(4) The 12" rotors offerd with this setup (ZZ Perf) are Powerslot with cermanic brake pads/do I need to use the same type of material for the rear brakes to keep it in balance with the front brakes? In other words, can there be a mix do the fronts and keep rear brake stock with semi-metallic pads and stock rotors ?
(5) Will the factory spare wheel/ tire fit over the front f-body brake setup?
(6) What do you all thing of the F-body kit from ZZ Perf, they say its bolt on, no tapping out with 12mm & 14mm bolt issues problems using sleeves etc...that I have been reading about... Was that old school/ vs what offered now at ZZ Perfromance.. Can someone shed some light here?
Thanks TP

1. Never installed theirs so I don't know, but if you're paying as much as their kit costs it better fit, lol.
2. You need the fbody rotors and brake pads.
3. It will be tight but stock brake likes do reach IIRC. I'd still recommend stainless.
4. I know that f-body brakes do not fit inside the 96 and lower crosslace wheels, Other than that, they should fit behind your 16" wheels.
4 again? lol. I would just buy the F-body rotors separately, just make sure they're from a 98-02 f-body, and then I'd recommend Hawk HPS brake pads. You don't have to do anything with the rears, but throwing a set of Hawk HPS brake pads on might not be a bad idea.
5. No, the factory donut spare will not fit over the caliper.
6. The Fbody brackets use a different sized bolt than the stock GP brackets. If you buy the complete kit from them you have nothing to worry about.

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'05 WRX STi - COBB Stage 2|Invidia DP|3" Borla XR-1|Coilovers|Camber Plates|Swaybars|Endlinks|Bushings|Braces|Anti Lift Kit|DBA4000s|SS lines|
Sold: 06 Cobalt SS/SC, 99 GTP 245WHP/326 Ft-lbs, 06 R6

f-body rotors use a different bolt pattern.

I am using the stock front grand prix rotors, there is no problem with that

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04 Supercharged American and 01 Turbo Swede

Drunkie writes that: "f-body rotors use a different bolt pattern" what does this mean??
(1) Does this mean that your are using 98-02 F-Body calipers on your 04 Grand Prix with the 11.7" stock OEM rotors.
(2) I call ZZ Perf and they telling me that you need the 12" rotors to work with 98-02 F-Body calipers ?
(3) Can anybody out their clear this up on whats going on here ????

The wheel hub bolt pattern on the F-body is 5x120, the grand prix is 5x115. The F-body rotors will fit though and the general consensus that I read on CGP a while back was that F-body rotors should be used. I didn't know GP rotors would work too but if you want to use them then you can also take that route.

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'05 WRX STi - COBB Stage 2|Invidia DP|3" Borla XR-1|Coilovers|Camber Plates|Swaybars|Endlinks|Bushings|Braces|Anti Lift Kit|DBA4000s|SS lines|
Sold: 06 Cobalt SS/SC, 99 GTP 245WHP/326 Ft-lbs, 06 R6

Kyle how can you use rotors that aren't the right bolt pattern? I'm a bit curious.

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04 Supercharged American and 01 Turbo Swede

So what is going on here ? Is there a disconnect in understanding how this upgrade is going to work?
(1) So you 're are telling me that that F-body 12" rotors have a different bolt pattern than 2004+ Grand Prix rotors
(2) and you're telling me that it's ok to use the 98-02 F-body calipers with current 11.7 stock calipers and it will work.
(3) So my question - Is the stock 11.7" rotors refered to as 12" rotors ??
(4) Why is ZZ Perf saying that you need 12" rotors then.. I don't get it?
(5) Is it possible that these 12" rotors that ZZ Perf is selling to go with the F-body duel piston kit are really not F-Body 12" rotors but are really 12" rotors that are made to fit Grand Prix maybe they are 12" Impala rotors?
(6) Last- what works with 97-2002 GP may not work for the 2004+ GP ...There must be somebody out here that done this upgrade
using the ZZ Perf duel piston kit on 2004 GP with stock 16" wheels...

The rotors for f-bodies have the 5x120 pattern drilled but they still fit on 5x115 GP hubs. Most of the Fbody brake people on club GP are running the f-body rotors. Same thing with GP rotors, they don't sit still once on the wheel studs either and there's some play in them.

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'05 WRX STi - COBB Stage 2|Invidia DP|3" Borla XR-1|Coilovers|Camber Plates|Swaybars|Endlinks|Bushings|Braces|Anti Lift Kit|DBA4000s|SS lines|
Sold: 06 Cobalt SS/SC, 99 GTP 245WHP/326 Ft-lbs, 06 R6

I wonder if the same could be said for the corvette 14" rotors?

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04 Supercharged American and 01 Turbo Swede

Corvette's are 5x120 too, coreect? If so the rotor would fit on the wheel studs, but I don't know if the rotor hat is different enough to cause a problem, and you would also obviously need corvette calipers and some kind of bracket to make it work too. And wheels that would clear the massive brakes, lol.

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'05 WRX STi - COBB Stage 2|Invidia DP|3" Borla XR-1|Coilovers|Camber Plates|Swaybars|Endlinks|Bushings|Braces|Anti Lift Kit|DBA4000s|SS lines|
Sold: 06 Cobalt SS/SC, 99 GTP 245WHP/326 Ft-lbs, 06 R6

ugh ---

12" rotors (fbody / impala / monte carlo) ($100 d&s rotors with decent pads on ebay)
get C5 vette calipers -- small bore pistons = better brake feel ($100ea from rock or whatever on ebay)
don't forget -- caliper bleed screws point up (fbody and C5 l&r are reverse to our cars)
you need to bend the bracket for the rubber brake line at the frame -- just grab and pull it forward a little.
donut won't fit --- shouldn't run one on the front anways. put a rear tire up front and the donut on the rear.
caliper brackets -- 12" Impala ones work with the bolts you got now (14mm) -- CARDONE 141134
the rears --- if you need pads get em & you should probably grease the slides.
flush entire brake system with fresh fluid.

go with C5 calipers --- they're waaaaay better.

Vegas~Blown,
Have you done this? It sounds like a good idea, but I'd like to see it before I ever thought about doing it myself.

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Dude have you been living under a rock?




I'm running C6 z51 calipers...I'm going to use the same calipers and go to a 13" rotor setup next

And here is a little interesting thread:
http://www.grandprixforums.net/big-bad- ... 39174.html

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04 Supercharged American and 01 Turbo Swede

excellent writeup Drunkie. You may want to add that the 2006+ Monte Carlo/Impala dual piston calipers and brackets will bolt up using stock hardware and use the 12" rotor from the 06+ MC/Impala. The caliper is basically the same as a f-body caliper, except it is iron instead of aluminum.

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'05 WRX STi - COBB Stage 2|Invidia DP|3" Borla XR-1|Coilovers|Camber Plates|Swaybars|Endlinks|Bushings|Braces|Anti Lift Kit|DBA4000s|SS lines|
Sold: 06 Cobalt SS/SC, 99 GTP 245WHP/326 Ft-lbs, 06 R6

I must have been under a rock, Thanks Drunkie!

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sure 'nuff have --- mine look a lot like Mr. Drunkie's except in red. gives you a much nicer pedal.

To All:
Guys you have absolutly lost me...I put some questions out there--some were answered some were not ....now I'm reading this whole post from the very beginning and it ends talking about working with the right offset wheels & corvette 14" braking sytems ????? I don't get this...you all lost me....115MM bolt pattern -120mm bolt pattern ...then I get this statement " they don't sit still once on the wheel studs either and there's some play in them" You got to be kidding me: What the hell does this mean ? That the rotor is going to float around on the bolt pattern? People I"m not a mechanic..before I put down $$$ money on this F-body duel piston brake upgrade kit from ZZ Perf I need to Know what is going on here....I guess what I need to do is call ZZ perf and find out what the bolt pattern is
for the 12" rotors that can be ordered with this kit is it 115mm or 120mm? I called them once and talked to somebody out there but I got the feeling this person wasn't very technical oriented. The other option is go buy the the kit and chance it or do nothing
and just replace pads.. There has to be somone out there thats done this using the F-body kit from ZZ perf to 2004+ grand prix using Stock 16" wheels.....I need to know in detail if this is direct bolt on plug play or do you still have to make minor mods for this to work. You guys give me info but its this and that and you need this and that...it like trying to put a puzzle together. It looks like to me guys that done this upgrade got parts from various sources for the 97-03 grand prixs model years...Fine some of you did it...but I want to know who out there has done this to 04+ with 16" wheels with ZZ kit that they say all you need is here but the kit is really geared for 97-03 model years...
Thanks TP

Listen, why would ZZP sell a kit that wasn't gonna work? Also you really don't comprehend well, my suggestion, just put down the wrench and walk away. This is not rocket science, we are talking 2 bolts on a caliper and thats it. Yes it all fits, you need to learn how to use the internet and research, the link I have provided has given more than enough info you just choose to read what you want. ZZP sells it as a kit, it includes everything you need and will fit 16" wheels.

I think the person you talked to on the phone was technical oriented, it was just you who wasn't.

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04 Supercharged American and 01 Turbo Swede

THANK YOU!

TO THE Original Poster. THE ZZP KIT WILL WORK!

BUY IT, INSTALL IT, THE END!

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Ryan Cashier
1999 Black GTP

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http://www.fquick.com/rynoman03
http://www.cardomain.com/id/rynoman03

Like Mr. Drunkie said ---- put the wrenches down and walk away. None of this is hard --- none of this is unique --- it's all been done a thousand times.



My original answer went down the line --- straight forward and should of been all that you need. It wasn't --- so you're either not inclined to modding your car or you're just playing f*ck f*ck. Hell, I even put part numbers on a few things to get you started.

as I said before --- ugh.

04GPGT2, don't get so frustrated. We are trying to help. ZZP F-body brakes will work on your car, the suggestions made by Vegas~Blown are for a similar but better brake setup that you can collect your own parts for. Since him posting this, I have begun collecting parts so I can do this swap. If you don't feel comfortable doing that, go with the F-body kit. If you don't think you can do the install, please take your car to a brake shop. Brakes are something that if improperly installed can ruin your day as well as the days of others.

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To clear up some of what we were talking about, your stock rotors have some play in the bolt pattern, torquing the wheel down correctly holds the rotor in place. All I was saying is that f-body rotors fit, even though they were intended for use on a different car. Drunkie pointed out the the 04+ rotors will also work. You can use whichever you want, they both work. Don't worry about the logic behind it if it confuses you this much. As mentioned, f-body brakes have been done over and over. They work and that's all you need to worry about. If you don't feel confident working on your car, get someone who knows what they're doing to help you so that you can learn and do it on your own next time.

_________________

'05 WRX STi - COBB Stage 2|Invidia DP|3" Borla XR-1|Coilovers|Camber Plates|Swaybars|Endlinks|Bushings|Braces|Anti Lift Kit|DBA4000s|SS lines|
Sold: 06 Cobalt SS/SC, 99 GTP 245WHP/326 Ft-lbs, 06 R6

you'll love it ---- I know that I can run into a corner a couple of car lengths deeper than the other guy.



I didn't like the ZZP kit because of the sleeves they used to use on the caliper brackets --- but I see they've changed over to the Imp brackets making that a non issue. But still --- there's not that many parts that you can't coble together the kit pretty easily.

Oh, you'll also need both fbody and C5 caliper hardware kits (like $10 each set). You need the C5 rattle clip for the top of the caliper and the Fbody one for the clips the pads slide on (they clip over the caliper where the pads ride).

don't forget to flush the fluid --- it also makes a difference.

edit to add:

I got my D&S rotors and pads from "brakemotive76" on ebay for $115 for rotors and pads. The rotors still look new, even in the hat area, whch hasn't begun to rust yet (I live in the desert so your mileage may vary). They shipped with Evolution pads, which had great bite but wore out pretty fast. I replaced them with Wagner pads and hate them. I'll go back to the Evolution pads when these things wear out.

Drunkie your post over on GPF.net is gold and that link Matt posted to Stoptech about ABS is pretty interesting as well.

As for the OP, slow down and read (cause knowledge is power right?). There's a billion and 1 threads and google searches on this topic and other issues which you are unfamiliar with. As said it's nothing new and is one of the easiest mods ever and if you're uncomfortable or unfamiliar with the "lingo" than you may want to lay off of modding/mechanic work especially when brakes are the only thing keeping you from validating newton's first law. I took a couple liberties with that statement

However, to also help clear some things up just for fun...
Bolt pattern is the distance between 2 studs on a 5 stud patterns so 5x115 means there's 5 studs with 115 mm between one stud and the direct opposite stud.

As kyle pointed out the rotors will always "float" around and be loose unless the wheel is bolted on. This is just how they are modded/stock, plain and simple. This is why some cars have a small screw that goes through the rotor and into the hub. That screw does nothing to actually keep the rotor in place when the wheel is on since if it did it would snap under the extreme torque, it's just to keep the rotor tight when the wheel is off.

If the kit didn't fit or needed bigger wheels, etc blah blah blah, ZZP's site would point that out right on the page for the kit you are looking at. The page even says that the kit won't fit the 97 crosslace wheels which isn't any of the 04+ wheels obviously so the kit will fit. Speaking of offset....


Some brake options use bigger calipers which would require more positive offset to allow space between the spokes of the wheel and the caliper.

As for people getting the parts from else where... It's because most people can't justify paying ZZP a premium on parts that can be found at a local junk yard, forum sale, auto parts store. ZZP's kit is just that... A KIT...but not really I guess since it's just the calipers and brackets at the $250 price. Not much of a "kit" if you ask me. However, since it includes the entire caliper/bracket and can include the rotors/pads charge more than what the parts actually cost if you were to source them yourself. Instead of paying 250 bucks for just the calipers and brackets you could go find Fbody or 06+ Monte/Impala brakes (same thing different metal as Kyle said) for less than 100 bucks give or take.

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Dubs:00 VW GTI VR6, Low and Slow 91 VW GTI 8v, Shave the Bay!! 91 VW Cabriolet 8v, bitch Basket
GP's:04 GP GT, Past now G-Ma's Girlfriend's 97 GP GT, "Project Pink Power"

The OP might be better off buying the kit though, it basically exists for the people who don't really care for the logistics behind what they're buying as long as it works. Some people don't mind paying a premium for the convenience of not having to assemble a brake swap themselves I guess.

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'05 WRX STi - COBB Stage 2|Invidia DP|3" Borla XR-1|Coilovers|Camber Plates|Swaybars|Endlinks|Bushings|Braces|Anti Lift Kit|DBA4000s|SS lines|
Sold: 06 Cobalt SS/SC, 99 GTP 245WHP/326 Ft-lbs, 06 R6