Ok guys, Im new here. I did do some searching around but couldn't find the answer i was looking for.
what i want to know is, on a basic 3.4 setup( headers, colder plugs, intake and tune ) how much hp and more importantly torque will expect to be making.

3.4" MPS, 2.25" aluminum intercooler (probably only at 30% efficiency at the time), ZZP headers and ZZP catback.
With those mods above plus a ZZP dyno tune, I made 245whp on ZZP's dyno.
Much later, once I got my tuner, hooked up my wideband, and started to get serious into modifying my car, I find out that tune was absolute slop garbage trash.
13* ignition advance, ~10.0:1 AFR.
3.4" set-ups, if done right with headers and a good tune will really wake up a supercharged 3800.
However, my 3.4" on a GenV M90 is like a 3.2" on a GenIII, most likely what the OP has.

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'04 GP CompG - 2.6" junk

230-240hp and 290-310tq at the wheels.

I made 245HP and 326 ft lbs at the wheels with TOG headers into a Borla catback, 1.9:1 rockers, 3.4 pulley and a wideand tune (all basic mods done as well like theremostat, autolite 104's, etc). A guy that dynoed the same day made almost the exact same numbers with the same mods as me.

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'05 WRX STi - COBB Stage 2|Invidia DP|3" Borla XR-1|Coilovers|Camber Plates|Swaybars|Endlinks|Bushings|Braces|Anti Lift Kit|DBA4000s|SS lines|
Sold: 06 Cobalt SS/SC, 99 GTP 245WHP/326 Ft-lbs, 06 R6

i made 263 350 ft-lbs with 9.2:1 compretion, 3.4, 3" dp, XP cam


i would not run a 3.4 with out at least rockers or anintercooler of some sort. some cars can get away with it but that eather have no timing or run pig rich

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92 LeBaron Convert: Turbo 3L 97 Grand Prix GT 4dr "Frankenstein": L67 4t65 swap
97 Grand Marquis: Summer DD 99 Grand Prix GTP: Top Swap Beater

Cammed setups are gonna make at least 20 HP more than a rockered setup more than likely.

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'05 WRX STi - COBB Stage 2|Invidia DP|3" Borla XR-1|Coilovers|Camber Plates|Swaybars|Endlinks|Bushings|Braces|Anti Lift Kit|DBA4000s|SS lines|
Sold: 06 Cobalt SS/SC, 99 GTP 245WHP/326 Ft-lbs, 06 R6

Hmm that's the first time I've been told that. I've been doing a lot of reading on various forums over the past couple months, and most say that a 3.4 should be fine with headers, intake, tune, colder plugs and 180* TSTAT(controversial).. they say an intercooler or rockers wouldnt be needed if I didnt plan on going past a 3.4 set-up, which I dont. I would consider getting rockers though, providing I had a write up to see how hard they are to install. Most of the info that I got was from this thread at grandprixforums.net : http://www.grandprixforums.net/safely-m ... 17482.html

Obviously thats only one thread and everyone has different opinions on what is needed and what is not. Will rockers give me a significant power increase on a 3.4 setup opposed to a 3.4 w/o rockers.

do you need rockers or intercooler no. but i have noticed to run KR free you need to run a bit rich or back off the timing some

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92 LeBaron Convert: Turbo 3L 97 Grand Prix GT 4dr "Frankenstein": L67 4t65 swap
97 Grand Marquis: Summer DD 99 Grand Prix GTP: Top Swap Beater

^^x2. And backing off timing and running rich = power lost.
Rockers are obviously far easier to do than a cam and would definitely help out the build since not only are you going to get more flow into the combustion chamber you could tune it to run more effectively as well (timing advance + better AFR as Tom said). I/C would also be great and help out a ton, but if you don't want to spend that sort of money to run a 3.4 it's totally fine, but you should at least look into and seriously consider doing HR rockers + springs. Also, if you don't have one already, you should look into getting a scanner so you can monitor KR, or other parameters, to make sure that if you do run a 3.4 with no rockers or I/C that you're not having a KR monster under the hood. A wideband would also be a solid investment.

How is a 180*tstat controversial by the way? As long as you also change the fan turn on points, it's a huge help. An engine with no stock I/C and a huge heat pump on top requires all the cooling help it can get.

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Dubs:00 VW GTI VR6, Low and Slow 91 VW GTI 8v, Shave the Bay!! 91 VW Cabriolet 8v, bitch Basket
GP's:04 GP GT, Past now G-Ma's Girlfriend's 97 GP GT, "Project Pink Power"

never messed witht he tun on points in the GTX and it ran at around 190* durring this horridly hot humid summer.

but yes it would be alot more efficiant with the proper turn on temp

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92 LeBaron Convert: Turbo 3L 97 Grand Prix GT 4dr "Frankenstein": L67 4t65 swap
97 Grand Marquis: Summer DD 99 Grand Prix GTP: Top Swap Beater

I've heard some people insist that you need it, and others say that its pointless. I more believe that it will help though. I'll definiately look into some rockers, are there any write ups on here. Also, stupid question, but what is a wideband.

A wideband gauge and compatible o2 sensor shows the engines Air Fuel Ratio and is key to doing a good custom tune.
I'll look for a write up though. I can't think of any off hand.

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Dubs:00 VW GTI VR6, Low and Slow 91 VW GTI 8v, Shave the Bay!! 91 VW Cabriolet 8v, bitch Basket
GP's:04 GP GT, Past now G-Ma's Girlfriend's 97 GP GT, "Project Pink Power"

180 Tstat is a cheap upgrade and can only hell especially if you live in a sunner state. I have mine programmed to stay on for 5 mins once the cars turned off and help the engine cool.

Sent from my Samsung Infuse

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Shoot, I run a 180* tstat in my girlfriends N/A with adjusted fan settings and after run. Car stays at 180-185 all the time which let me run a tad more timing advance. 160* is what I'd call the controversial one, but 180*, especially on an S/Ced (even more so if modded) 3800 is a must.

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Dubs:00 VW GTI VR6, Low and Slow 91 VW GTI 8v, Shave the Bay!! 91 VW Cabriolet 8v, bitch Basket
GP's:04 GP GT, Past now G-Ma's Girlfriend's 97 GP GT, "Project Pink Power"

So for a 3.4 setup your gonna need more than just headers, t-stat, and colder plugs? Whenever doing hypothetical builds in my head I always wanted to stay away from the valvetrain for some reason; I feel like even if you only add new rockers with will take away from the daily driveability of the car. Would an intercooler compensate for stock cam/rockers?

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How would adding rockers make the car less drivable? They let more air into and out of the motor, making it more driveable.

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'05 WRX STi - COBB Stage 2|Invidia DP|3" Borla XR-1|Coilovers|Camber Plates|Swaybars|Endlinks|Bushings|Braces|Anti Lift Kit|DBA4000s|SS lines|
Sold: 06 Cobalt SS/SC, 99 GTP 245WHP/326 Ft-lbs, 06 R6

i daily drove my car with the xp cam. well when it ran but it was unrelated to it being cammed it was electrical witch the new owner discovered and fixed

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92 LeBaron Convert: Turbo 3L 97 Grand Prix GT 4dr "Frankenstein": L67 4t65 swap
97 Grand Marquis: Summer DD 99 Grand Prix GTP: Top Swap Beater

Out of curiosity, how much hp/tq are you making on that subaru in your sig.

You're letting your engine breathe better with rockers the valves open much farther. Actually working with your valvetrain will allow you to mod even further because of the reduction in kr. And giving you more room for tuning when you put better springs on to reduce valve float.

Sent from my ADR6400L using Tapatalk

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2004 Grand Prix GTP
FWI | HP Tuner | 1.9 Rockers | Headers | 3.5 Pulley | 97-03 Control Arms w/GMPP sway bar|

A huge cam that makes the car lope like crazy due to massive overlap would make a car less drivable, but rockers won't do that since they are only opening the valve more, not changing when they open/close.
Most of the cams for the 3800 seem to be pretty good about lumpiness though so drivability really isn't all that much of an issue. You can also bump up the idle rpm so help with the lope if you prefer more vacuum and smoother engine at idle.

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Dubs:00 VW GTI VR6, Low and Slow 91 VW GTI 8v, Shave the Bay!! 91 VW Cabriolet 8v, bitch Basket
GP's:04 GP GT, Past now G-Ma's Girlfriend's 97 GP GT, "Project Pink Power"

the cams for the 3800s are pretty mild in comparison to most. mainly becuase they car computer controlled so they can not be too radical or the computer gets massiv derp

in comparison the NIC one of the larger cams that is hard to tune

NIC: 220/230 @.05 .507/.507 lift 112 seperation angle 112 intake center line.

the cam i am putting in my olds 350

comp cams 42-433-9
236/242 @.05 .515/.534 lift 110 seperation angle 105 intake centerline


the nic can idle with 13" hg that cam i have sitting in a box idles at 11" hg no power brakes for me. it;s the stock specs for the W31 manual trans

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92 LeBaron Convert: Turbo 3L 97 Grand Prix GT 4dr "Frankenstein": L67 4t65 swap
97 Grand Marquis: Summer DD 99 Grand Prix GTP: Top Swap Beater

I guess we should ask what is your overall hp and tq goal?

Sent from my ADR6400L using Tapatalk

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2004 Grand Prix GTP
FWI | HP Tuner | 1.9 Rockers | Headers | 3.5 Pulley | 97-03 Control Arms w/GMPP sway bar|

I know the rockers make the valves open more, but more air means more fuel no? I was thinking along the lines of a wild cam grind with crazy lift; I guess I was equating the two.

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^ Not really can actually help ypur fuel mileage. Doing rockers will not hurt the reliability for a DD will actually increase. Rockers aren't real difficult to install now cam on the other hand is a harder install gotta drop the cradle etc but does gain more hp compared to rockers.but also cost more so food for thought.

Sent from my Samsung Infuse

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As mater stated you can dd MOST cams for the 3800 pretty easy. I have dd 2 different xp'd motors and can think of. One that runs a nic and one that runs an xpz in there dd summer cars. Granted they are not as nice as my xp with the extra lope and such but the biggest thing the cam will do negitive will be rougher idle.

And I am know running the same basic motor that mater was ( block is the same ( I have his old car for those that don't know)) and xp, headers, top swap ( high compression) and currently run a 3.0 kr free. ( with supporting mods) and am making 280 who and 350 or 360 wtq. I don't recall

Rockers are the least intrusive valve train mod that will acctually flow more air..


An ic is the only , I say again only thing that will truly let you make more power ( in a nociable fashion like that of rockers/cam) that does not change the valve train in any way.


Headers and such will help but are not on the intake side of.things.



Like stated also efficiency = hp. And what is mpg than good efficiency?

sent from my driod x, via my fingers through tapatalk

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2001 white gt coupe with enough crap to make it run mid 13's with 3 bad pistons
2002 40th GTP sedan mostly stock

On a trip back from North Carolina to Ohio I averaged 37MPG with myself and 3 other guys in the car and a full trunk on a 3.4 pullied/rockered GTP. Rockers make the car more efficient, more power + driving conservatively generally equals better fuel economy because the motor isn't working as hard to get the car going and keep it moving.

-- Tue Sep 20, 2011 10:22 pm --



Based on the numbers that Cobb (the company who wrote my tune) gives out, around 350 HP and 385 Ft-lbs of TQ at the crank with the stage 2 tune I'm running and the turbo-back exhaust. Haven't had it dynoed but it's heavier than my friend's TVS 1320'ed 300WHP Cobalt SS and runs just a little faster than he does. Probably 280-290AWHP, 315-325 AWTQ. Should have no problem doing mid-low 12's in the 1/4 mile with a good driver.

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'05 WRX STi - COBB Stage 2|Invidia DP|3" Borla XR-1|Coilovers|Camber Plates|Swaybars|Endlinks|Bushings|Braces|Anti Lift Kit|DBA4000s|SS lines|
Sold: 06 Cobalt SS/SC, 99 GTP 245WHP/326 Ft-lbs, 06 R6