Dan: any results?

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2005 GT owner [Non S/C] with a "big DIC".
Two years later and I still love the car.
Thanks Pontiac...Bleen is keen!

I've just barely had time to modify one of my spares to copy the one on the car. It's been too cold for me to work out in the garage the past month. I'll get back to work on it, though, since it's warming up here.

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'97 GTP: 9.5:1 Diamonds, XP'd, 3.4, Shiny Headers, Ported S/C and Heads, N*, HPTuners
Coming Up: Intercooling of some sort...

I hear you.

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2005 GT owner [Non S/C] with a "big DIC".
Two years later and I still love the car.
Thanks Pontiac...Bleen is keen!

Any updates on these guys? would love to hear more ideas and experiments you have done???

I was just thinking about this one the other myself.
We still haven't touched on the *big one* yet [mod].

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2005 GT owner [Non S/C] with a "big DIC".
Two years later and I still love the car.
Thanks Pontiac...Bleen is keen!

Really interested in the top mount throttle setup. Though just to clarify, is it proven/considered inefficient and ineffective to have the air coming directly from the top into the M90 due to the position [design?] of the rotors?

Come on guys, noone is brainstorming anymore..

BUMP!

It has been talked about time and time again but the problem is that the design limits have all ready been exceeded. To make any real improvements to see large gains would exceed the cost of the S/C itself and you are better off getting a whipple or going turbo.

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2009.5 SBM G8 GT
November 2011 Car of the Month

Well I read through the thread over and over again and gathered all the shared ideas into a series of dot points. I got the following:

- Mirror shine polish everything from filter of the intake pipe, through TB, blower and into the LIM
- Intercooling
- 4” intake piping
- Applying TBC coating in water jackets of LIM and under it
- Sealing off stock opening and make an opening on top of the M90 for direct airflow + opening up the LIM at the same time?
- Making rotors and gearing out of lightweight material so they operate with much less effort
- Phenolic plenum spacers?
- Porting inlet
- Porting outlet while keeping the same triangle shape as it’s considered the most effective
- Porting TB
- Porting heads

A slightly hardcore idea mentioned was:

- Twin screw design rotors to fit into M90 casing so that it actually compresses air in housing and creates the boost at the top of the engine rather making boost at the LIM from extra air pushed in


Some of my ideas I gathered which I thought is worth sharing:

- Drilling through middle of rotor fins to reduce weight and therefore less effort to spin, must balance them after though so you haven’t taken too much/little from one fin than the others
- coating rotors in an efficient coat


Want to get this thread up and running again, feel free to add more things guys

I'm curious as to why most people think the top inlet would be more effective than the end?
I know it sounds stupid,but work with me here guys.
This is all free - it's cost no one any money - that I know of.

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2005 GT owner [Non S/C] with a "big DIC".
Two years later and I still love the car.
Thanks Pontiac...Bleen is keen!

Hmm well what I had in mind was having the inlet and the rest of the intake system ontop like the conventional blowers with the bug catchers etc.
I thought it was a good idea because my L67 is on a RWD application so the engine and blower are facing forward, but I don't see why you wouldn't be able to think of something similar for the FWD guys as it's not that big of a difference?

I'm assuming there would be less friction which ultimately means heat being created as the air doesn't have to find it's way through the intake piping system going through 90 degree bends etc. Also the heat soak would be eliminated from having your filter sitting in the engine bay soaking up all that heat. I know most of you guys have a pod enclosure but I think it's still worth mentioning.

-- Fri Sep 10, 2010 1:40 am --

I got thinking again tonight and thought further about the inlet. I'm assuming it would be a bit difficult and tricky opening an entry from the top of the M90 and sealing off the rear inlet. What I thought about was maybe utilising the rear inlet and just have it bend straight up, then attaching the TB and throttle on top with a bug catcher scoop muhaha.

I don't know much about physics and science so I don't know how effective and efficient it would be for the air to go through the intake, down the TB (or depending how/where you attach the TB, have the air go through the intake, TB and then go down the piping), turn left and finally enter the inlet of the of M90.

As I said before, mine is a RWD application so I'm assuming physics would slightly be more to my advantage. Here are some basic drawings of what I'm talking about so we can have a better idea of what I'm talking about:


Don't mind the poor detailed pictures LOL that's what happens when you only have MS Paint to work with

This is a mockup drawing for the FWD application cars:



This is for the RWD version with the TB directly behind the filter:


And here is another RWD version with the TH directly under the filter, somewhat like the conventional blowers:



I know there is alot of other things to take into consideration with the designs I have published but I just wanted to get the BASIC idea of what I'm talking about across to you L67 guys

Suggestions and opinions...

scharged, I'm planning a RWD L67 for a 74-77 Camaro (yep gotta be different I know) and your post got me to thinking. If i could get some kind of hood scoop setup with mine that would be awesome.

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98 GTP (RIP 11-5-09); 73 Z28 Camaro (350, TKO 600);01 Monte Carlo SS (L36, L67/L32 hybrid in the future)
"Death smiles at us all; all a man can do is smile back"

Bringing this one back to life!

I finally managed to swap my blower and get to work on some experimenting this fall. Unfortunately, all I had to work with was a Dremel and a bench grinder. Also, unfortunately, I didn't bother taking any pictures of the project because I was too focused on getting all of my projects done...(Managed to finish my HID retro also)
I got the H-bar removed sufficiently enough to suit me using the grinder and a lot of care. I cut out the second little triangle, leaving about a half-inch of aluminum before the factory (already ported) opening. I opened up and smoothed the inlet just like I've done on my other blowers, filling in the EGR opening and blocking the coolant passages, as well. I cut out a spare LIM to accommodate the larger blower opening, as well.

Both Blowers were Gen III M90's with a little over 100,000 miles on them with fresh oil and no air/oil leaks.
For a time/temperature reference, all of this was done on nice days around then end of October in Ft. Smith, AR.
Being too poor to use a dyno to validate my experiment, we'll have to settle for observations and my handy butt dyno.

1st) A drive around and a few WOT's onto the highway with no tuning changes:
A) I noticed about 1/2 to 1 psi drop in boost pressure (somewhat expected from increasing the outlet area and, essentially, the LIM volume)
B) No knock at all (as before with the other blower)
C) The car didn't really feel any faster, nor did it feel any slower, either (Yet)

2nd) Made some necessary MAF adjustments
A) Still lower boost pressure (I don't expect this to change unless it gets colder out..)
B) Still no knock and running a bit smoother in general
C) Not as much torque felt as before, but it seemed to pull better at the top (above 4500)

3rd) Added a bit of timing above 100kpa across the map
A) Boost pressure unchanged
B) Got a touch of KR and had to pull timing back in a few cells
C) Feeling the torque and still pulling hard

4th) Ironing out the MAF, timing, and fueling
A) Maxed out @ 9.5 PSI with my 3.4 pulley (was typically seeing 10 PSI on the other blower)
B) No KR, but timing is a degree or two higher in general, especially at WOT
C) It feels stronger and faster, but that may be in my head... (Being able to add timing makes me think this may have benefited power output)

Side note: I put a few scans of before and after the swap through Brad Barnhill's Virtual Dyno.
The highest output I managed to get before was 316 HP
Recently (12/12/2011) (I know it's colder out (40's-50's)... Boost pressure is back up to 10PSI, now), I got a peak of 332 HP

Please provide any feedback you may have. I know this is a very inexact way of providing information/proof of anything concrete, but I'm simply sharing my experiment experience with those who are interested. There is nothing earth-shattering here, but it did seem to make an improvement. Using a Gen V blower might increase the difference, but I don't have one (or two) to test with.


Just as a disclaimer to cover my butt:
I assume no responsibility for anyone who decides to perform the same procedure.
I am not claiming this to be some magic modification that will add 15+ HP to your setup.
This is simply an experiment I did and the results I obtained from it.

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'97 GTP: 9.5:1 Diamonds, XP'd, 3.4, Shiny Headers, Ported S/C and Heads, N*, HPTuners
Coming Up: Intercooling of some sort...

sounds sweet, any pics of the set up? like engine bay wise, and did you cut up your hood for the air to be shoved into the TB?

Cool.
Did you notice an increase in the MAF readings?
Did you happen to modify the silencer slots?
It sounds like what you did benefited you by 5%
It would probably help more at higher boost levels due to greater pumping efficiency,everything else being equal.
BTW,Dremels and bench grinders are my two favorite tools for home use,right behind the drill press .... and I've been a Machinist/Fitter for 30+ years.

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2005 GT owner [Non S/C] with a "big DIC".
Two years later and I still love the car.
Thanks Pontiac...Bleen is keen!

I can take pictures of the engine bay, but it doesn't look any different than before. No holes in the hood. Just a standard 4" intake to the fender well opening.



MAF showed about the same during lower MHz readings, but was a few % lean in PE at first. I had to increase the table to regain target AFR.
As for the slots, I did nothing to them except smooth out the rough surfaces.
Chances are, the differences would be more dramatic at higher boost levels, but I'm not willing to up my boost levels until I work on some sort of intercooling.

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'97 GTP: 9.5:1 Diamonds, XP'd, 3.4, Shiny Headers, Ported S/C and Heads, N*, HPTuners
Coming Up: Intercooling of some sort...

Just read this whole thread. To bad i dont work at the eaton plant were they make SC, or else id get some of these ideas you guys implemented...our plant just makes vavles and gears for diff and trans.

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Opinions are like assholes, Everybody has one and they all stink
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