I haven't had time to do any paper mock-ups yet (studying for classes and ASE test). I may just have to do more crude Photoshop drawings just to get my ideas out there... I'll get some drawings done in the next few days, hopefully, and give you an idea as to what I'm thinking.

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'97 GTP: 9.5:1 Diamonds, XP'd, 3.4, Shiny Headers, Ported S/C and Heads, N*, HPTuners
Coming Up: Intercooling of some sort...

Good luck with your tests.
I found this for the guys who want to read something and haven't seen this yet:

http://www.eatoninside.com/showthread.php?t=156

http://www.thrashercharged.com/tech_htm ... _tear.shtm

http://www.superchargerperformance.com/ ... ifications

http://www.svtperformance.com/forums/en ... -pics.html

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2005 GT owner [Non S/C] with a "big DIC".
Two years later and I still love the car.
Thanks Pontiac...Bleen is keen!

Here are some quickies of what I had in mind.


Not the prettiest, but you get the idea.

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'97 GTP: 9.5:1 Diamonds, XP'd, 3.4, Shiny Headers, Ported S/C and Heads, N*, HPTuners
Coming Up: Intercooling of some sort...

I like the the top idea personally.

_________________
2005 GT owner [Non S/C] with a "big DIC".
Two years later and I still love the car.
Thanks Pontiac...Bleen is keen!

Good! That's the one I like the most, as well. As soon as I get some free time, I'll take some measurements and make a little nicer drawing in AutoCAD, then I'll look into doing that to my spare blower casing.

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'97 GTP: 9.5:1 Diamonds, XP'd, 3.4, Shiny Headers, Ported S/C and Heads, N*, HPTuners
Coming Up: Intercooling of some sort...

Keep the boost low at first and watch the plug colour/scan tool readings.
Good luck and happy hunting.
BTW:Are you going to work the inlet side as well?

_________________
2005 GT owner [Non S/C] with a "big DIC".
Two years later and I still love the car.
Thanks Pontiac...Bleen is keen!

Oh yea! The inlet will be ported to match my N* TB (75mm) and smoothed for better flow.
Now I just have to wait to get paid so I can get some good bits for the die grinder and Dremel.

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'97 GTP: 9.5:1 Diamonds, XP'd, 3.4, Shiny Headers, Ported S/C and Heads, N*, HPTuners
Coming Up: Intercooling of some sort...

any one thought abought making a steel LIM or aluminum one? like the edelbrock air gap but have it be able to have the S/C still.


just an idea. my uncle made a custom intake manifold for his caddy 500ci V8 he had (he wanted 3 2bbls)

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92 LeBaron Convert: Turbo 3L 97 Grand Prix GT 4dr "Frankenstein": L67 4t65 swap
97 Grand Marquis: Summer DD 99 Grand Prix GTP: Top Swap Beater

I didnt really read through all of the posts here but i have the general idea. The real problem with the M90 is that its already out of its efficency range from the factory. Its just not meant to be a street maching blower like the m112,whipple,kenny bell, etc. The real problem lies within the rotor design. If we can find someway to have a custom rotor setup made for direct replacement, then our problems would be gone. Our blower are just that blowers and not really superchargers. Although the words are used interchangebly, a supercharger actually compresses the incomming air in the housing and creates the boost at the top end of the engine. this causes less turbulence unlike in out cars where the boost is created in the LIM from the extra air being pushed into it. There it will become unstable and turbulent and causes the heat to build. This means we would need a twin screw design much like the almighty whipple we all know of. If we could somehow find away to fit twin screw rotors into our housings, then im sure we would see a complete change in performance with the blower. The problem is that twin screw rotors are much long and would require some modification of the engine. Im sure there is a twin screw design that will fit in our blowers somehow. Also with twin screws, you will make more boost with less rotations. This means that larger pullies can be used and this will also cause a large decrease in heat. Less rotational friction that is.

The idea of having the TB on top is very ingenious. I think that is a step in the right direction. You want air to get from point a to point b with the least amout of bends. Air flowing from the side inlet then taking a 90* bend into the outlet is a huge factor in air turbulence. Now doing this would also mean that the outlet design would have to be more rectangular then triangular. The base of the triangle is where most of the air gets forced through the motor because of it haveing to take a sudden 90*. It takes is a small distance to complete change at those velocities.

Im sure most of you know that as i did not read every post. I was kinda lazy lol. Ill go back through it when im more awake. Its bedtime. Haha. You guys all of good ideas though. Keep them comming.

If i find a good idea ill mess around with it abit. I have a spare m90 sitting at home.

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1999 Pontiac Grand Prix
303HP/353TQ
Mods: L67 swap w/3.25" pulley,PRJ LL cam, speed daddy headers
2008 BMW 335i TT-jb4 tune.BMS intake.AA bOV and charge pipe

there is a guy on another board putting a M90 on his 3800 camaro. know the problem he has is the facing of the TB so he is blocking off the stock inlet and then machining the side of the case and putting a LS1 TB there. i am intreaged to see how this works for him this also compleatly removes the BBV though so no idea if he will have lowe throttle problems or not

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92 LeBaron Convert: Turbo 3L 97 Grand Prix GT 4dr "Frankenstein": L67 4t65 swap
97 Grand Marquis: Summer DD 99 Grand Prix GTP: Top Swap Beater

That swap was done for the first time a couple of years ago now I think, car has been running for a while. Now there is another guy doing the same build, going to be pretty much the same setup I think.

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00 GTP Daytona

yup the first one that i know of was a black 96 called the C67. some one else owns it now though.

Edit: i know you you are also on fullthrottlev6.com as well

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92 LeBaron Convert: Turbo 3L 97 Grand Prix GT 4dr "Frankenstein": L67 4t65 swap
97 Grand Marquis: Summer DD 99 Grand Prix GTP: Top Swap Beater

What,he's over on Licht's board too?
Has he no shame?
Maybe he can tell Mike I said hi....and maybe he can ask the bum why he didn't show up at the last Buick event with my ScanMaster?

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2005 GT owner [Non S/C] with a "big DIC".
Two years later and I still love the car.
Thanks Pontiac...Bleen is keen!

Yup, Sandman over there, some other bum took that name on here before me

I want to see someone do an L67 swap into a third gen, I wish I kept mine now.

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00 GTP Daytona

Any word when someone might be willing to try and take a dive at one of these?

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PonchoDvr4Lfe
04' GP GTP Comp G- TDC CAI, Powerslot Rotors, Intense Custom PCM, Intense MPS 3.6", Autolite 605's, MSD 8.5mm wires,180* T-stat, custom Borla exhaust, ZZP DP, P-Log
Delivered 06-18-09: 2010 Camaro 2SS w/ RS!!

i would but i do not have money

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92 LeBaron Convert: Turbo 3L 97 Grand Prix GT 4dr "Frankenstein": L67 4t65 swap
97 Grand Marquis: Summer DD 99 Grand Prix GTP: Top Swap Beater

I'm awaiting the opportunity to swap my messed-up blower off my car so I can get started experimenting. I'm going to experiment on a casing that has a few gouges in it from when my motor burped up a piece of piston last winter (don't want to ruin a perfectly good case if it doesn't work out well). It'll take me a few weeks to get done what I want to, but it'll be done eventually. Classes, work, and studying for my ASE have been eating me alive the last few weeks, and will continue to until mid-terms are finished.

And just for clarification, the design I'll be doing is this one:

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'97 GTP: 9.5:1 Diamonds, XP'd, 3.4, Shiny Headers, Ported S/C and Heads, N*, HPTuners
Coming Up: Intercooling of some sort...

I've been wondering something:

I'm looking at the shape of the larger opening and wondering if it would work better if you left the narrowest part alone and just widened the widest part?
Maybe rounded corners at the base of the triangle with curved sides.
The profile I'm thinking of would look like kind of like a Hershey's Kiss from the side.
If necessary,you could always widen the sides straight to allow more flow to the center cylinders if needed.
What do you think?

I thought the idea with the straight edges is so they line up with the edges of the rotors as they come around so the air is pushed out evenly. With a smooth, rounded edge, there would be some overlap where the leading edge would be exposed to some of the air just released, and allow some pressurized air to return back up into the rotors, thus creating more heat buildup.

I wouldn't mind experimenting with doing something like that to the smaller hole, and enlarge/straighten it out later if necessary. I have all of my items to be worked on. Now, I need to gather up some bits for the die grinder and Dremel that will last longer than fifteen minutes.

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'97 GTP: 9.5:1 Diamonds, XP'd, 3.4, Shiny Headers, Ported S/C and Heads, N*, HPTuners
Coming Up: Intercooling of some sort...

I was poking around today on the internet and found this:

http://www.gofastnews.com/board/technic ... uding.html

It doesn't deal with 'chargers,but it does show some things about cylinder head work and design that is quite interesting.
It may just give some hints as to how to get better flow out of Gen II heads while reducing crevice volume and detonation in the cylinder,allowing for more power to be made safely.
Feel free to read it and let me know what you think.
Lots of links on that page.

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2005 GT owner [Non S/C] with a "big DIC".
Two years later and I still love the car.
Thanks Pontiac...Bleen is keen!

Dan,I have a question for you:

Can you take a measurement of the rotor outside diameter?
Go top to bottom inside the case.
As for your cutting bit dillema,high speed Steel should work just fine on Aluminum.
Slow the machine down to half speed or less to prevent heat build up and clogging of the bits/sanding rolls.
It helps a lot to use dish washing liquid as a lubricant for cutting burrs when doing Aluminum or other non-Ferrous materials.

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2005 GT owner [Non S/C] with a "big DIC".
Two years later and I still love the car.
Thanks Pontiac...Bleen is keen!

Both cases I have measured exactly 4.10" across both diameters.

Thanks for the tips on cutting bits and lubrication. I started the basic port on the one I'll be replacing my casing with, but I haven't made too much progress yet.

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'97 GTP: 9.5:1 Diamonds, XP'd, 3.4, Shiny Headers, Ported S/C and Heads, N*, HPTuners
Coming Up: Intercooling of some sort...

You're welcome.
The reason I ask about the diameter is that I read somewhere that as the rotor tips approach supersonic speeds,strange things can happen at the inlet.
Given the known diameter of the inside of the case,we can calculate the tip speed and figure out what RPM they should be going supersonic at.....if the average 'charger ever gets that tightly woundup.
Using Pi X D we get 12.8805" per rev. = 1.0734' per rev

Mach 1 is ~ 760 mph or 1,116 ft/sec. [standard temp/pressure/humidity]

1,116/1.0734 = 1,039.687 RPSec.

1,039.7 X 60 = 62,381.22 RPM.

Therefore,when the 'charger rpm reaches over 60,000 rpm the rotor tips are going supersonic.
Since I *doubt* you'll ever run a 'charger that fast,I would guess the above was a moot point.
It does however point out that the rotors do play a part in the charger's abitlity to pump air.
I wonder how much they affect the incoming air at the speeds they routinely turn at?
Every 'charger has an efficiency map just like a turbo.
What we're attempting to find out now is how to "stretch" that map and make the unit more efficient at what it does - read less crankshaft power used and less heat produced at the outlet for every given rotation of the lobes.
Feel free to check my math above if you like and let me know if I've fouled up anywhere.
I ain't perfect.

_________________
2005 GT owner [Non S/C] with a "big DIC".
Two years later and I still love the car.
Thanks Pontiac...Bleen is keen!

The math looks good. I did some guesswork and figured my supercharger spins a little over 14,000 RPM when the engine is at 6,000. That's with a 3.4" pulley. With a 2.8" pulley, the blower would spin a bit over 17,000 RPM. So, assuming we never spin the blower over 20,000 RPM, the speed of the rotor edge would stay, very safely, under the supersonic limit.

I believe, with the design of these rotors, that we are limited in what we can do with the casing to make it more efficient. I believe the best opening shape is that provided to us by Eaton. We just need to improve that opening's flow characteristics. That's also why I decided to make the second opening mimic the original, not a round or figure-8 hole that is done to some of the larger versions.

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'97 GTP: 9.5:1 Diamonds, XP'd, 3.4, Shiny Headers, Ported S/C and Heads, N*, HPTuners
Coming Up: Intercooling of some sort...

I'm surprised someone hasn't told me I'm full of it in my reference to horse power not existing.
Put on those thinking caps guys.
I'm betting Dan might have an idea,but I don't want to hear from a ringer!
Think James Watt........

_________________
2005 GT owner [Non S/C] with a "big DIC".
Two years later and I still love the car.
Thanks Pontiac...Bleen is keen!