Hello! I have been a member of GPONA for a while, though I do not post much. I am a regular offender on RegalGS.org.

Myself and Hellfish from RegalGS have been researching spark plug wires in an attempt to bring what we feel is the BEST plug wire available on the market today into the 3800 community. We are trying to organize a group buy in order to offer sets of these wires at an affordable price and would love to extend it to fellow Buick owners at Riviera Performance.

Summary:
Currently, there is no acceptable plug wire available for these cars.

I have found a solution that provides us what I believe is the best possible plug wire for a performance/street or race application, or even for a daily driver.

The wire I have chosen is a 10 mm wire with a 100% silicone jacket and a stainless steel (highly wound) winding. capable of withstanding 700*F sustained or 1200*F for 3 minutes.


Why these wires are better than factory or other wires already common to the market:
Inside your factory spark plug wire is a carbon laden latex material that conducts the ignition pulse to the plug from the coil along the surface of this latex core.

What happens over time is that portions of the carbon burn out (similar to electromigration) and the conductor looks akin to something not unlike Swiss cheese.

Companies that sell spiral core wires with low ohms are trying to take advantage of consumer ignorance! Marketing leads consumers to believe that less OHMS = more spark. In reality, what it means is that there is less linear feet of the expensive spiral wire. Unlike measuring ohms with a 1.5v DC ohm meter, ignition pulses (75,000VDC typical) travel across the outer edge of the spiral windings, and not through them linearly.

These wires have a stainless steel spiral winding with generous amounts of actual wire, which give them a high OHM reading, but allow them to transfer large amounts of energy easily. The conductor itself will be able transmit significantly more energy than stock, require less coil voltage to fire the plug, and could conceivably out last your car. Because of their construction they are both STRONGER and MORE FLEXIBLE than other solutions.

Carbon wires and ferrite windings tend to fail in the way I described above; sections get burnt out and no longer conduct as easily.

Copper cores (MSD) are notorious for corroding, which ultimately causes the same result as the situation described above.

Pros:

• In my honest opinion the BEST plug wire available today
• Excellent construction
• Excellent EMI suppression
• Most energy conducted to the plug
• Pure silicone insulation that will withstand 600*F sustained and 1000*F burst (8.5 mm ) / 700*F sustained and 1200*F burst (10 mm)
• These would be the last set of plug wires you buy ever, the conductor will never corrode (copper like MSD ) or break down (ferrite/carbon latex like stock).
• Should extend the life of your ignition coils because they will not have to work as hard to fire the plug.
• Made in America

Cons:

• Initial cost (replacing your stock wires with stock sets 2 to 3 times would easily pay for these). There is NO WAY these will be cheaper than MSD's or ZZP's. (BTW, the engineer I talked to at this company singled out MSD plug wires as being terrible and that they have lots of problems with them.)
• Orders would have to be in groups of AT LEAST 20+ or 50+. 50 would get a slightly better price.
• Looming. Basically you have to be extremely careful to ensure that all wires are are separated from each other and do not come into contact with any grounded metal (IE the ENGINE). While this will NOT damage the wire, it will cause poor performance of the ignition system. Most people who have cracked plug will often try and RMA these type of wires because of poor performance, when in reality it's due to the plug or poor insulation. 10mm will not fit stock looming and you will HAVE to buy seperators. I have been told 8.5 will fit. (some people use zip ties to make their own separators)

Most aftermarket plug wires are designed to optimize profit margin and not your maintenance schedule. They will not sell as many sets if they make sets that are designed to last the life of the car. Mechanics wouldn't make as much money if you don't come back. OEM's are looking at volume pricing, and don't care if they have to throw a set of wires at you with in your 36,000 miles if they get a great deal on them because they ordered a few hundred thousand at a time.


Cost:
The wire I have chosen is a 10 mm wire with a 100% silicone jacket and a stainless steel (highly wound) winding. capable of withstanding 700*F sustained or 1200*F for 3 minutes. Prices could be a bit less if the community moves towards the 8.5 mm wire, which is the same conductor, with a thinner silicone jacket which can withstand 600*F sustained or 1000*F for 3 minutes. The 1 piece pure silicone jacket makes it possible to fit the 8.5mm wires in the factory wire separators with out damaging the conductor like would happen with other brands. But I feel the extra insulation necessary since the proximity of our plug wires to the supercharger.

The sets will be manufactured by the manufacturer as the cost of the materials VS having them make the sets is so marginal that I determined it better to have them do it, so you don't need to worry yourself with anything in the regard of the quality of the assembly.

I would tentatively release the following prices:
20+ Orders, $130
50+ Orders, $120
(subject to change)
does not include wire separators or CoolSox, but includes shipping
(If I were a store owner, I would retails these sets at nearly $200)

You WILL need to provide a looming solution which keeps the wires separated and away from the engine as much as possible. (This is how ANY plug wire should be installed, but the manufacturer was clear they did not want to see wires come back because they were improperly routed.) I recommend CoolSox (spark plug boot protectors) in your installation especially in applications with headers/tubular manifolds or turbochargers, however the manufacturer says they should be fine with out them.

Properly installed and maintained, these will be the last plug wires you ever buy.

What I would like to do is start a list of 20. If it moves at a good pace, we will go to 50. Currently, there are 6 on the list.

Once we reach the order amount, I will dispatch an email and people on the list will have 48 hours to send payment. People who did not get in on time will be notified. Those who do not pay with in 48 hours will be replaced with people who did not make the first batch. If people get bumped the "back up people" will have 24 hours to pay. I'll place the order with the company and will then receive the wires and then ship them to their final destination myself. If a significant amount of people do NOT pay (lets say, 20-25%), I will return peoples money to them, sans paypal fees if they pay with a credit card. I will have 2 addresses to use, one for payments with and one with out a CC. If only a few people fail to pay, I will either attempt to work out a deal with the manufacture or pay for the remainder of sets my self and then they will be available at a marked up price to whomever wants them.

If everyone would commit to buying wire separators and CoolSox I could also likely get those at volume a discount as well. If there is enough interest, CoolSox will be available in white for an additional cost of ~27$ per set shipped (quantity of 6). When I bought mine they were 36+tax & S&H.

I have mad a few (good) connections with industries in this area, and chose to rely on American products and local business. Which I feel allows me to find better quality products and workmanship, while supporting our economy and working class. I refuse to deal with products that come from China, where ever avoidable.

All of the information above has been compiled from two threads on RegalGS.org. They can be found here:
(must be registered to view)
"Sick of Stock Spark Plug Wires? I have a solution for you":
http://www.regalgs.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=62320&st=0&sk=t&sd=a
"Official Plug Wire Sign Up Sheet":
http://www.regalgs.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=62556

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'99 Regal LSSupercharged

Lighting, Handling, HP Tuners, Top Swap, Bumpstick, Lots of Porting, Transmission

Sounds interesting none the less, and the write up gets you all psyched for sure on them.

~F~

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I will possibly have some big info Monday after we talk to the manufacturer again, and likely install pics later in the week.

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'99 Regal LSSupercharged

Lighting, Handling, HP Tuners, Top Swap, Bumpstick, Lots of Porting, Transmission

Pictures would be great to help sell everyone on these, as many are for looks and performance, but more than anything, they are after looks, so color, and size of the wires play a huge roll, even if they are not worth a damn, like the MSD wires...you pay for the name, the color, and size of the wires, do they work any better? nope, do they look cool? Yup, was it a good investment? Sure, you look cool while having misfires.


~F~

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Cool idea, but for that money I could get a set of PRJ's which are proven to be the best possible wire for the 3800 right now, plus the PRJ's come with wire separators.

I'd say a sub 3 digit price for some sweet wires would perk my ears, but other than that, I'll stick with the PRJ's

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Click HERE for updates and pic of the car!

The design and construction of the wires we are offering is superior to the Taylor 409 Spiro Pro wire (the wire used in PRJ wires) in two key ways.

Taylor wires use a spiral wound Ferrite core. Ferrite is iron and corrodes easily. Which is what makes it a bad candidate for an ignition wire conductor. It is a popular choice among manufacturers in the industry because it is extremely cheap. The wire we are offering utilizes a tightly wound stainless steel core, which will not corrode and degrade as iron does. The price of stainless steel is significantly higher than iron, which is why our wires bear a higher cost.

The wires we are offering use a 100% pure silicone jacket with no filler material. Taylor wires do not. Instead, they use three layers of silicone with two layers of fiberglass filler in between to lower manufacturing costs.

The inner most layer of fiberglass in Taylor's 409 Spiro Pro wire is said to increase the "pull strength" of the wire. A spark plug wire is not a rope! It does nothing to prevent the wire from being pulled out of the terminal in the instance of improper removal. Pulling on the wire (and not the boot) is a quick and almost guaranteed way to damage ANY plug wire.

The wires we are offering have a heat resistance of 700*F (continuous) and up to 1200*F for 3 minute bursts. While the Taylor wires are only rated to 600*F (continuous) even with their extra layer of fiberglass "insulation". Tightly wrapping silicone in fiberglass does nothing to provide extra heat protection. While the fiberglass itself is able to withstand temperatures of over 1000*F without burning, the silicone inside can not and cooks from within the fiberglass. The only solution in this type of situation is a "Cool Sock" or woven fiberglass boot that is installed over the spark plug wire boot before it is connected to the spark plug.

According to PRJ's website, wire separators are $30 extra. So, I'm not sure where you are getting the impression that they are included in the price of the wires. Right there you're over $100 not including shipping for a set of wires that still suffer from the deficiencies listed in my original post and will ultimately have to be replaced.

This is group buy, we are simply extending the discounted price from the manufacturer onto everyone else and shipping them out. There isn't anything we can do to lower the price.

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'99 Regal LSSupercharged

Lighting, Handling, HP Tuners, Top Swap, Bumpstick, Lots of Porting, Transmission

where are the pics

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04 Comp G. Sport Red. SPO.
SmoothFlow 3.6MPS | PRJ Tune | Powerlog | 3" DP | Wizair | PRJ 10.4mm wires/Autolite 104's

This sounds good to me. I would like something bigger than OE, but do NOT want MSD. Curious to see what these look like, too.

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One Big Ass Mistake America

Pics and more details should be up this week. It depends when we will be able to meet with the manufacturer.

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'99 Regal LSSupercharged

Lighting, Handling, HP Tuners, Top Swap, Bumpstick, Lots of Porting, Transmission

Only thing that has been tried and held true are stock wires, and Taylor's, in the 8mm size. Bigger is NOT always better for the LARGE Taylor's everyone runs.

PRJ's...ZZP...MSD...sad-sad-sad.

Just because they say its good, and have some great new dyno numbers, or others say, "I just installed them and who can I feel a difference", doesn't mean that they are worth the money spent. Many times, people have, and are running old worn out wires to begin with, when you do the swap to some new ones, you damn right things are going to change.

Nobody has really proven to me yet, as far as the vendors go, that swapping from one to the other makes a difference. They say, and show charts and graphs, but that dont mean jack to me. Show some proof, take some new out of the box from one brand run them on the dyno, with out cutting, or stopping the video, swap them out with a set of yours and then run it again, and then lets see the numbers in real life ya know.

other than that...I run, what I know works and holds up.

Not to turn this into a flaming debate as to whos is better and to why or what reasons, as I have heard about the recent pissing match from others about this on Club Gay Pride...I just have to get this off my chest, and vent a little in my own words, and what i run, and what I trust and as to why.

If these are as cracked up as they are to be...then perhaps, this might be the new best thing for our community. Pictures, and proof of a gain, and some real world testing for durability to back up the claims, would be in order before I fork out the cash.

My $0.02 but what do I know about anything.

~F~

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Jason, it sounds like we are on the same page here. Claims of HP gains from wires are because the wires that were taken off were old and worn out, or of poor quality to begin with.

The company we are working with offers two wires that we have considered. One is an 8.5mm, the other is 10mm. Both wires use the exact same conductor, but we felt the extra insulation the 10mm wire offers will be beneficial in our application to help limit spark energy loss (arcing through the insulator to ground) because of the likely-hood that the wire will at some point come into contact with a ground source (the engine). We are working on a better way of routing/looming the wires to prevent them from coming into contact with any ground source except the plug itself.

You aren't going to bolt on horsepower with plug wires. The plug either fires, or it doesn't. If it doesn't you lose HP. If it does, it does. But then you can analyze how well the wires perform in the system in regards to durability and required coil voltage. Dyno tests of HP mean nothing in regards to plug wires. The only reason to put a car on a dyno for a test of plug wires is to be able to reach the RPM where the required voltage to fire the plug is at what you will be at under WOT acceleration. At this point the real testing is measuring coil voltage and how much energy the wire can handle, how much is lost, how much EMI is emitted, etc... and NOT in how much WHP it makes, because it, everything else the same, should not make a difference in hp according to physics.

These wires used in all areas of motorsports and are known for their super performance, longevity, durability, and build quality. I will be meeting with the manufacturer tomorrow morning to finalize some things before the first two sets are cut and we can begin testing. When things are finalized, I think you will be pleasantly surprised when you see the wires.

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'99 Regal LSSupercharged

Lighting, Handling, HP Tuners, Top Swap, Bumpstick, Lots of Porting, Transmission

I met with the manufacturer today, should have the first set tomorrow. I was very impressed with what I saw and I think you guys will be too.

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'99 Regal LSSupercharged

Lighting, Handling, HP Tuners, Top Swap, Bumpstick, Lots of Porting, Transmission

Send me a set for cost and I'll dyno before and after numbers between them and my beloved MSD wires.

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My Mod List

The Big Reveal:

Yes, perhaps some have speculated on where/who these wires are coming from. We have worked with Magnecor to get a custom set of their R100 10 mm race ignition wires made for our application. These wires will deliver the most powerful spark, handle the most heat, and out last the life of the car with proper care. Picture below is our "beta" kit. Kits that ship will be numbered. As you can see they come with documentation outlining how to install the wires, including special instructions for the 3800.

Just to recap:

The R-100 wire is a 10 mm ignition cable. It's conductor is a 2.5mm diameter stainless steel winding around a strengthening substrate, then coated with a one piece 100% silicone jacket that provides the best thermal protection, flexibility and strength. The wire terminates at both ends with a stainless steel terminal. The plug boot is the highest temperature boot available.

This set has been designed to fit FWD 3800's. These will fit with any intercooler/blower. The plug boot is also fairly low profile and the highest temperature they make to accommodate most headers, no coolsox are necessary. These were designed to fit cars with the coils in the factory location, they have been given a reasonable amount of slack, but if you have moved your coils, please ask first as there are no returns for non-defective parts (and we can order you a custom set for a bit extra). In fact, unless you physically break your wires (which is not covered) you should never have a problem. Just be sure to read the documentation that comes withe them completely. If you do physically break a wire you can order individual replacements through us.

I have sourced wire separators which are acceptable (there aren't may 10 mm ones to chose from). If you would like to add them to your order please let me know (they are extra). However, I am still working with the manufacture on the price, but this should be wrapped up soon once we work out quantity. You can provide your own looming solution, there is a fairly clean method of using zip ties to create custom separators which you may find on the web. Wires should be neatly loomed and kept away from anything that may damage them. You don't want any plug wires to contact the engine directly.

We may also offer brackets to mount the separators at a premium, I have a contact that could stamp us some pieces to mount the wires too. These may take extra time so if we go ahead with them, I will offer them to people who already bought plug wires at a later date with no extra shipping, just the cost of what ever they turn out to be.

Pictured is our BETA set, the final set will be numbered.

These plug wires represent a fairly large investment of time and money of Anthony (Hellfish) and myself, and I take a lot of pride to release these and to say that they are Made in the USA, including any accessories we provide (separators, brackets).

And the suspense is over:























For plugs in a stock application - 3.4 pulley, I would recommend an Autolite 605 with a .055 gap
for 3.4-3.1(and up to around 11-12 psi of boost) I would recommend an Autolite 104 with a .050 gap
for 13-14 psi and up, 3.0 pulley or small i would recommend an 103 with a .050 or .045 gap, for more than 14 psi or nitrous i would recommend an AR 103 with a .045 gap.

I can also get a group price on coolsox if there is interest. I don't think they are necessary.

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'99 Regal LSSupercharged

Lighting, Handling, HP Tuners, Top Swap, Bumpstick, Lots of Porting, Transmission

Thos are purty!

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One Big Ass Mistake America

got a question. are those better than prj 10.4s? my buddy has a like new set he had on his car only 3 days before he traded it in, i can get them for a good price. not trying to ruin this thread

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http://www.cardomain.com/id/lacboi" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Read the entire post, they talked about PRJ wires early on.

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2009.5 SBM G8 GT
November 2011 Car of the Month

I like the color, they are pretty!

LOL

Looking forward to your testing, and like the fact that its going to be real world testing, and specifically, on our engine.

~F~

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We're posing the question to the community,
Would you prefer:

All the wires to run under the passenger side dogbone

or

The rear wires to run over the dogbone, with the front wires going under

or

All the wires to run over the dogbone

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'99 Regal LSSupercharged

Lighting, Handling, HP Tuners, Top Swap, Bumpstick, Lots of Porting, Transmission

under

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Lets send a set of PRJ's and a set of these to Vinnie so he can do some 1 on 1 dyno testing. Thats what should be done. These look like good wires and im actually dying to find out some test results.

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04 Comp G. Sport Red. SPO.
SmoothFlow 3.6MPS | PRJ Tune | Powerlog | 3" DP | Wizair | PRJ 10.4mm wires/Autolite 104's

Keep them the same as stock

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2009.5 SBM G8 GT
November 2011 Car of the Month

For this reason we will not be putting a car on the dyno. These wires have already proven themselves in many forms of motorsports and for us to dyno a car before and after would be pointless. If any outside parties are interested in comparing in such a manner we encourage them to purchase a set and dyno their car before and after and post the results.

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'99 Regal LSSupercharged

Lighting, Handling, HP Tuners, Top Swap, Bumpstick, Lots of Porting, Transmission

If I hadn't already had a set of PRJ's I would give these a try, i've heard of magnecor before and they are great quality wires. They'll help you if you run into problems and always are looking for feedback with any issues with their products. Hell they have a section on their site for routing issues on vehicles. None the less everyone will attempt to bench race parts till the end of time. Just remember "almost" anything is better than an old worn out set of wires.

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Your mom was a faster ride

We have 2 choices for plug boots.

Stock style plug boots (the exact plug boots on the stock wire set) and the high temperature boots seen here. If we use the high temperature boots you may have to bend the plug terminal on number 6 to clear the O2 sensor IF and only IF you are running stock manifolds.

The boots are quite longer than stock, but they can handle a lot of heat. there is a slight variance in installed boot height. We have had them adjust it down so it should clear the O2 sensor with no problem, but if your boot gets close to it (not every car is the same, there is a little varience ) and you are uncomfortable, magnecor said that you can simply bend the terminal of the boot (with the wire out of the car and ). We have tested this and it's no problem.

It's my opinion that with the adjustment you should be fine even with the high temp boots on stock manifold...

You can order the plug wires with what ever boot you like, so please post and specify. If you are running headers or turbo manifolds, i would recommend the high temp. If you are worried about the length of the high temp boot, you can order stock style (they are actually the GM boot made by delphi.) I doubt it will touch with the adjustment and if you loom them tightly. But if it does you can slightly bend the terminal. Magnecor offered to bend #6 for all of them. They say its no problem, bending it is fool-proof and any one can do it as long as you do it out of the car, it is something they do frequently with this robust terminal. You could even bend it back if you get headers.

beta set 2 will have numbers. Adding them is expensive, so i will post and the community can decide if its worth it. The cost is increasing due to the added length to route around W body engine mount. I don't know if i can split the order for those who don't have a mount there and would want a cheaper price. I'm trying to work some wiggle room into the price and I may still be able to sell them at 130, but I doubt we can keep them at 130 shipped with numbers, because the cost with shipping would then exceed 130. We're talking about a margin of dollars.

Does everyone really want numbers? It's obvious which plug each wire belongs to based on length.

Please provide your email if you are interested.

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'99 Regal LSSupercharged

Lighting, Handling, HP Tuners, Top Swap, Bumpstick, Lots of Porting, Transmission