drove a Panther black GT today and all I can say is "holy shit!!"
awesome car, I was extremely impressed with it. The only reason I didn't take it home is it's black, and the only other G8's they had were red V6 cars.(and the bank closed at noon )


I really want to check out the GXP when they hit the lots, and see rather or not there will be a M6 option.

you might be waiting a long time on the gxp... because of the basic failure thus far for sales of the G8, the GXP production this year has been cut drastically. Figure on a long waiting list and only a handful of dealers seeing the GXP hit their lots

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2008 GPONA Members Choice Car of the Year
40th Anniversary Daytona Pace Car #1077

12.538 @ 109.89 1.877 60' 10.18.08

I can't believe a car this great failed the way it did. Dammit Bush where's this oil from Iraq???

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2012 Ford Focus SE Sport
2012 MINI Cooper Clubman

I have ADHD and drive a Focus. Ironically.
Although gold dust is precious, when it gets in your eyes, it obstructs your vision.

Really? Don't think so.



Sorce?? Proof???

Not saying the production will not be low as there is no reason for it to be high.

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2008 PBM G8 GT
2000 White Grand Prix GTP
2007 White G6 GT

Here is Pontiac's reply to those that say the G8 is a flop.

Dear Wall Street Journal Editors,

In their September 9th article, Ms. Terlep and Mr. Boudette seem to have conveniently ignored GM's global product development strategy for the design, engineering, manufacturing and marketing of vehicles when drawing their erroneous conclusions. This strategy allows us to quickly leverage our resources around the world to produce a far wider variety of cost effective products than a more regional approach, and is employed by practically every global manufacturer.

The Pontiac G8 is an excellent example of utilizing a single global vehicle platform to produce unique products for multiple markets while dramatically reducing both development and production costs. Variations of the G8 are sold in North America, Europe, Asia and Australia, where it remains one of the top selling vehicles in the country. In fact, every single GM product mentioned in the article is an example of this global strategy and all are sold in multiple markets around the world.

Since the Pontiac G8 serves as a focal point of the story, it might also be wise to consider that the vehicle is coming off its best sales month ever in August, with sales up 31 percent over July. It is consistently gaining market share in the highly competitive large car segment and more than 40 percent of its buyers are new to Pontiac and GM. Most importantly, G8 owners seem pleased with the styling and sporty performance of their new car, a sentiment echoed by dozens of journalists who have actually experienced it.

Perhaps Ms. Terlep and Mr. Boudetteare confusing "unpopular" with "not-for-everyone." Since automobiles tend to directly reflect the unique personality of their owners, it's only natural that niche vehicles, like the G8, aren't volume leaders. But, if vehicles must sell a minimum of 3,000 units per month to be successful as the reporters seem to suggest, 203 of the 316 different vehicles sold in the US in August (including 49 percent of GM vehicles, 37 percent of Toyotas and 64 percent of Fords) should disappear overnight since they are obviously “unpopular.” Fortunately, this is not the case and consumers' auto buying experiences are that much richer because of it.

Of course, when such information doesn't fit the angle of the story, it's easy to see why reporters chose to overlook it. We understand that's their prerogative. However, we remain confident that the G8 will remain a strong, positive story for Buick-Pontiac-GMC dealers across the country and will continue to provide a thrilling driving experience for its owners.

Sincerely,

Susan E. Docherty
GM North America Vice President, Buick-Pontiac-GMC

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2008 PBM G8 GT
2000 White Grand Prix GTP
2007 White G6 GT

the only failure I see is on GM's part for not being able to Build/import G8's fast enough to keep up with demand.

Well, OK then. I thought it was a mass market car, not a niche vehicle... Guess I was wrong...

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2012 Ford Focus SE Sport
2012 MINI Cooper Clubman

I have ADHD and drive a Focus. Ironically.
Although gold dust is precious, when it gets in your eyes, it obstructs your vision.

Unpopular Models Slow Down GM - Low-Volume Sellers, Eat Ad Dollars, Take Dealer Space



By SHARON TERLEP and NEAL E. BOUDETTE
September 9, 2008; Page B1

A few months ago, General Motors Corp. flooded the prime-time airwaves with commercials introducing the G8, a big, powerful sedan that is supposed to re-energize GM's Pontiac brand.

But the ad blitz hasn't had much impact. In August, GM's 2,712 U.S. Pontiac dealers sold only 1,915 G8s -- not even one per dealer.

GM has problems on many fronts, including high gasoline prices, falling truck sales and billions in losses. The G8 illustrates one problem that's often overlooked: The auto maker's lineup contains many vehicles that deliver barely any bang for the buck.

Consider the Saab 9-5 sedan. GM promotes its Swedish brand's smaller 9-3 sedan, but the midsize 9-5 gets little exposure and as a result draws little interest from shoppers -- or even dealers. At Saab of Troy, in suburban Detroit, a few 9-5s are in stock but none are in the showroom, where customers typically spend their time browsing. In August, GM sold just 198 9-5s nationwide.

Mark LaNeve, GM's top marketing executive in North America, said the additional costs of offering slower-selling models are "really very incremental" because most share parts with higher-volume models. The G8, for instance, is a version of a car that has been a strong seller for GM's arm in Australia. Yet auto analysts say slow sellers are a bigger drag on profit that GM acknowledges.

Ron Harbour, a partner at the automotive consulting firm Oliver Wyman, said each model, even if only a variation of another vehicle, requires some engineering effort. Producing models in small numbers lowers manufacturing efficiency. Every vehicle needs its own documentation, manuals and brochures. Dealers have to be trained to service each model and have to spend money to keep them in stock. And each vehicle needs a certain amount of advertising and promotion. "For every model, you've got some investment costs, and if you don't sell enough of them, you might not be able to cover the capital costs," Mr. Harbour said.

GM recently said it hopes to cut $10 billion in costs over the next 18 months. Frederick "Fritz" Henderson, GM's president and chief operating officer, has ruled out closing or selling any of GM's eight brands besides Hummer, which GM has put up for sale. But he hasn't ruled out getting rid of some of its slow-selling models.

Ford Motor Co. and Chrysler LLC have made simplifying their model lineups a central part of their turnaround plans. Ford has sold its Jaguar, Land Rover and Aston Martin lines. People familiar with the matter have said Ford also intends to sell its Volvo division, although the company denies Volvo is for sale. Volvo offers eight models, all slow sellers. Chrysler dropped four slow sellers last year and has said it plans to eliminate a third or more of its remaining models. Mr. Harbour noted that foreign auto makers also have a few low-volume models. In August, Honda Motor Co. sold just 2,606 Element cross-overs in the U.S., and Nissan Motor Co. sold only 2,178 Armada sport-utility vehicles.

GM has trimmed some models, too. It folded its entire Oldsmobile division several years ago. And in the last few years, it has reduced the number of nameplates offered by its Buick, Pontiac and GMC brands, which are usually housed together at dealers, to 16 from 30. Nevertheless, 20 or more of the 60 models GM offers in the U.S. often generate sales of less than 2,000 vehicles a month. Another half dozen or so fail to break the 3,000-vehicle mark in some months. Some are luxury cars, like the Cadillac STS full-size sedan, or specialty models like full-size vans, which generate profit even at low volumes. But many are mainstream cars such as the Saturn Astra hatchback and Pontiac Solstice roadster that don't command premium pricing.

GM's trouble with slow-selling models is closely related to another problem: weak brands. Pontiac, Buick, Saturn and Saab are such small players in the U.S. market that whole swaths of car shoppers don't even consider them. Each of those four brands was outsold in the U.S. market in August by Kia Motors Corp., the Korean maker that specializes in low-priced cars.

John Casesa, a veteran auto consultant and partner at Casesa Shapiro Group in New York, said GM may have trouble eliminating some of its low-volume models because some dealers carrying Saabs and Pontiacs need every model to stay in business. "Even if you have a model that's not making money [for GM], it might live on to allow showrooms to stay open," he said.

Even dealers that are in the black can struggle to move certain models. In May, Neil Norton Cadillac-Pontiac, a dealership in Joliet, Ill., ran TV ads pitching the Pontiac G5 compact, the kind of car many consumers are looking for with gas at $4 a gallon. But even with the extra advertising, he ended up selling only three, the same as the previous month. (Overall, the G5 has been a slow seller for GM.) Last month, the dealership sold about nine, better but hardly a barnburner. "It's still an important car for us," owner Larry Norton said. "We need to have a small car to offer our customers."

Write to Sharon Terlep at sharon.terlep@dowjones.com and Neal E. Boudette at neal.boudette@wsj.com

Corrections & Amplifications



General Motors Corp. sold 30,271 Chevy Impala cars and 55,765 Chevy Silverado trucks in August. A chart that accompanied a previous version of this Marketplace article about a GM slowdown listed the Impala as the company's top-selling car, but didn't indicate the more popular Silverado is a truck.

_________________
2008 GPONA Members Choice Car of the Year
40th Anniversary Daytona Pace Car #1077

12.538 @ 109.89 1.877 60' 10.18.08

Noone wants a 9-5 though, don't blame them. G5 was a failure. What I'd like to see is how many Zeta (the architecture the G8 is made on) cars GM sold worldwide in August. The Holden Commodore was/is a hit, and the Middle east's Impala SS is a hit too. NIce to have both articles though.

_________________

2012 Ford Focus SE Sport
2012 MINI Cooper Clubman

I have ADHD and drive a Focus. Ironically.
Although gold dust is precious, when it gets in your eyes, it obstructs your vision.

Europe has the Vauxhall XR8 I think (the G8 over there)
Australia has the Holden commodore and the Holden Ute
Middle east has the impala SS and Caprice
We have the Pontiac G8, Cadillac CTS (i think that is the Zeta one can't remember), and new camaro, and G8 ST

So I think the Zeta platform will be around for a while all of which are doing quite well Top Gear loves the Vauxhall with the GM 6.2L and M6

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92 LeBaron Convert: Turbo 3L 97 Grand Prix GT 4dr "Frankenstein": L67 4t65 swap
97 Grand Marquis: Summer DD 99 Grand Prix GTP: Top Swap Beater

Perhaps the reason they aren't selling so many is because not enough are being produced.. I know for a fact every G8 we have gotten at the Pontiac dealer here as been gone within a week. The last one they had just sold to my friend's mom (grrrr!) I think it just depends on how you look at it.

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Everything needs more Corsa. No exceptions.

Follow my journey of flight at
http://alwaysastudentpilot.blogspot.com/

Your friend's mom.. So make her let you drive it!!!!!!!!!!

_________________

2012 Ford Focus SE Sport
2012 MINI Cooper Clubman

I have ADHD and drive a Focus. Ironically.
Although gold dust is precious, when it gets in your eyes, it obstructs your vision.

The initial release of the G8 was very very limited. There was a dealership in Dubuque (the only reputable Pontiac Dealership within probably 50 miles) that got one and was only going to get one until this last June. They were basically testing the market, limited release=limited sales. What you have to look at is how many G8's were brought to America, and how many of those sold. But most people just look at numbers.

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Previous: '99 GTP 246 hp, 350 ft-lbs dyno tested
Current: '07 G6 V6...slow

"Wide open 'til you see God....then brake."

my local dealer has sold all the 08 modles they got (4)(3 V6s and 1 V8) they currently have 10 '09 modles and 8 are all ready sold there are only 2 V6 cars left both black

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92 LeBaron Convert: Turbo 3L 97 Grand Prix GT 4dr "Frankenstein": L67 4t65 swap
97 Grand Marquis: Summer DD 99 Grand Prix GTP: Top Swap Beater

The dealer I got my G8 from said my car was the 11th G8 they had sold and number 12 was beening picked up the same time I picked mine up. They are not a huge dealer so I do not know why some dealers only get a couple cars and others get 10+.

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2008 PBM G8 GT
2000 White Grand Prix GTP
2007 White G6 GT

Oh no worries. I will.
But she wants to do tint & exhaust first.

She's a badass!

_________________
Everything needs more Corsa. No exceptions.

Follow my journey of flight at
http://alwaysastudentpilot.blogspot.com/

i think the slow sales are the same reason i settled on the truck

my bank didnt want to loan out for a new car that costs over 30k

i say 30k because i actually almost ordered an all black one

_________________

that would of looked sweet

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92 LeBaron Convert: Turbo 3L 97 Grand Prix GT 4dr "Frankenstein": L67 4t65 swap
97 Grand Marquis: Summer DD 99 Grand Prix GTP: Top Swap Beater

Sounds like a personal problem to me. What'd the doc say?

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One Big Ass Mistake America