Not trying to sound like a smart a$$ but, how do you know its running rich then?

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2004 Grand Prix GT1, F&R STB's, GMPP R. Sway Bar, GMPP Trailing Arms, 180* stat,

My thoughts exactly. Does it hesitate when you stomp the pedal to the floor from a complete stop?

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Six-speed top-swapped GT, sold.
2006 F-150 4x4 for a daily driver.

because a smart little thing called a tech 2 told me

Sorry, I must have missed that part

Since you have access to a Tech 2, what are your long and short term fuel trims? What does your front O2 read?

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Six-speed top-swapped GT, sold.
2006 F-150 4x4 for a daily driver.

-%22 was the worst i saw. front o2 is brand new

On long or short term? Have you checked the fuel pressure regulator? Have you reset KAM (Keep Alive Memory) after the tune-up to see what the fuel trims go to? Also remember that at -22% you are not running rich anymore. That is the computers adjustment off base mixture to keep the fuel trims at stoichiometry (14.7:1). But most certainly you have a problem at -22%, and 5%+/- is the maximum allowed before there is a signal of a problem.
What I meant by your O2 readings is what do you have for a waveform?

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Six-speed top-swapped GT, sold.
2006 F-150 4x4 for a daily driver.

Figure this one out yet?

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2005 GT owner [Non S/C] with a "big DIC".
Two years later and I still love the car.
Thanks Pontiac...Bleen is keen!

lol he has more issues now his car is about as cranky as mine. but I think with the other thing he replaced recently he should be alot better off. the maf can really mess with you... been there done that

lol he has more issues now his car is about as cranky as mine. but I think with the other thing he replaced recently he should be alot better off. the maf can really mess with you... been there done that

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03 gs just ur avg bolt on car

Daily driver gone wrong
99 gs beater... the slippery slope car cam/heads blah blah blah

even after replacing the MAF the car is barely getting 17 in the city. and since i dont do much highway driving i dont know what its gets on the highway.

How's the rear O2 check out?
Is it switching alright?
I had mine replaced recently after the PEM's install and that seemd to help a bit.
On the scanner,you could see the readings sitting there.
After the replacement,you could see them moving around nicely.
An exhaust leak will introduce air into the exhaust stream that can fool the O2 into thinking you're lean when you're not.
Maybe have a look at the header to down pipe gasket?

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2005 GT owner [Non S/C] with a "big DIC".
Two years later and I still love the car.
Thanks Pontiac...Bleen is keen!

Yeah, about 17 city for me. I'm a leadfoot. I DO get about 35 highway though.

Rear O2 doesn't really do anything. Just monitors catalyst efficiency, that's it.

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2012 Ford Focus SE Sport
2012 MINI Cooper Clubman

I have ADHD and drive a Focus. Ironically.
Although gold dust is precious, when it gets in your eyes, it obstructs your vision.

If it's reading wrong because it's lazy,it can cause problems with the overall A/F mixture.

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2005 GT owner [Non S/C] with a "big DIC".
Two years later and I still love the car.
Thanks Pontiac...Bleen is keen!

Really? I thought the thing was useless. Looks like I need to delete it NOW.

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2012 Ford Focus SE Sport
2012 MINI Cooper Clubman

I have ADHD and drive a Focus. Ironically.
Although gold dust is precious, when it gets in your eyes, it obstructs your vision.

If you're going to use an O2 simulator,that might be a good idea.
Most mechanics think the rear O2 is along for the ride.
If it's good,that's all it does.
If it goes bad or is a little off,it will change the A/F ratio to suit what it *thinks* is right [remember,it's monitoring what eventually comes out the tailpipe].
At 50,000 + miles,mine was lazy.
No codes.
It was reading low.
We checked it with my friend's Snap On Torus scanner [a few weeks after my PEMs install].
It seemed to improve my highway /city mileage and throttle response.
Go figure.
What I saw on the scanner was the original O2 reading the same at all times.
With the replacement GM O2,I saw the readings jump around as the throttle was revved up and down.

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2005 GT owner [Non S/C] with a "big DIC".
Two years later and I still love the car.
Thanks Pontiac...Bleen is keen!

My cat is junk. Apparently my rear O2 is still working. I thought it wasn't. Guess I need a sim.

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2012 Ford Focus SE Sport
2012 MINI Cooper Clubman

I have ADHD and drive a Focus. Ironically.
Although gold dust is precious, when it gets in your eyes, it obstructs your vision.