The different gearing is going to make much more of a difference than 50lbs weight reduction. Especially when you're putting in an engine with less power. That completely negates the weight difference. The L67 in the 05 SS of course was 240/280. The 3.9L made 242/242 (later rated at 233/240). So a good chunk less torque.

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98 GTP (RIP 11-5-09); 73 Z28 Camaro (350, TKO 600);01 Monte Carlo SS (L36, L67/L32 hybrid in the future)
"Death smiles at us all; all a man can do is smile back"

the L67 had 2.93 gears the 3900 had the 3.29 gears

so they had the same 1/4 mile time and explains the loss in MPG

but also rember the reason the 3800 has more tourqe is the supercharger the 3900 is N/A

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92 LeBaron Convert: Turbo 3L 97 Grand Prix GT 4dr "Frankenstein": L67 4t65 swap
97 Grand Marquis: Summer DD 99 Grand Prix GTP: Top Swap Beater

actually i think the 04+ were rated at 260 horse and probably a bit more than 280 tq because of the new blower that was put on, and just in genereal the 3800 is just such a better platform...as for the gearing, the gtp's are the ones with 2.93's, the 04+ comp g's had 3.29's and the gt's has 3.29's as well. you can also just get your tranny rebuilt with 3.29's if you really wanted to get into serious modding.

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We were using the Impala as the example, which never had the Series III 3800. The GP never had the 3500 or 3900 so the Impala is the closest examples we can have, albiet the change was made when they changed body styles.

Tom, my cousin is a mechanic and he would rather have the 3800 motors over the new V6s. He's also driven both as DDs as well. He currently has a Buick with an L26 and he's already said he'll buy an older vehicle with a 3800 before he buys a newer one with the 3500 or 3900. The 3800 is a proven platform and you can't use the emissions excuse because the Series III 3800 was the first gasoline motor in the automotive industry to achieve SULEV standards.

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98 GTP (RIP 11-5-09); 73 Z28 Camaro (350, TKO 600);01 Monte Carlo SS (L36, L67/L32 hybrid in the future)
"Death smiles at us all; all a man can do is smile back"

the 3x00 been out just as long as the series II/III so they are proven as well

and the 3500 and 3900 do not need a EGR becuase of there emissions. only reason the 3800 was canceld was it was maxed out. any thing short of compleatly redeisging the heads there was nothing more that could have been done for it to get better emissions, power, or economy. also the tooling degrated so much they could not use it any more. it was cheaper for GM to just continue and focus on the 3x00 thne both the 3800 and 3x00

the current generation of 3x00 is the 3.6 found in the new camaro and CTS making 312hp

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92 LeBaron Convert: Turbo 3L 97 Grand Prix GT 4dr "Frankenstein": L67 4t65 swap
97 Grand Marquis: Summer DD 99 Grand Prix GTP: Top Swap Beater

The newer 3x00 motors seem to behave differently than the 3100 and 3400 from what I can tell. That's the observation my cousin has made as well (and he works on them for a living). And no, the 3x00 have NOT been out as long as the Buick V6 motors. The 3.1L in it's original form came out in the late 80s and replaced the 2.8L that came out in 1980. The earliest form of the Buick V6 came out in 1962. And you want power? Turbo the bitch. GNs were very close to the same power level as the TPI 350 Corvettes of their era. 276 NET hp out of a 6 cylinder was unheard of in the 80s, and most believe that GM intentionally understated the power rating of the turbo 3.8L because had they actually rated it at closer to 300 hp where it likely actually was it could have taken a large bite into Corvette sales. IMO, that's why the GN (and the Turbo 3.8L) got canned. Turbo V6s are becoming more widely used these days. Hell, Ford is putting one into the F150 and it's putting out very similar power levels to the V8s their offering. As far as emissions, there's not much farther you can go out of an internal combustion motor beyond SULEV. There are still only a handful of motors that have achieved that standard. To my knowledge, the 3x00 motors have NOT achieved this standard. At the very least, I have not seen any data indicating that they have. Call me biased, but I have no love for the newer V6s and I'll take a 3800 motor over one of the "high value" V6 as they call it. Each year, everything gets more and more complicated. The 3800 motor was one of the few left (other than the 5.3L truck motors) that was relatively simple to work on. With every motor they come out with, they make absolute sure that more and more people have to stop doing their own work and take it to the stealership to get their work done. And I don't like it.

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98 GTP (RIP 11-5-09); 73 Z28 Camaro (350, TKO 600);01 Monte Carlo SS (L36, L67/L32 hybrid in the future)
"Death smiles at us all; all a man can do is smile back"

the original buick v6 and the series 2 only share dispalcement and cylander bore spacing that is it. nothing is the same. you can not go out and bolt on GN parts on a series II it is a diffrent engine.


the 3x00 you can swap parts from the 2.8 carb engine from 1978 and it will bolt in. take a 3x00 slpa the same supercharge ror turbo on it and even with less dispalcement it will walk a 3800. the 3.6 is also not that hard to work on at all it actualy has less parts becuase of no push rods


now i perfer the 3800 well but the fact is the 3x00 is more efficiant the newer ones do not need EGR valves or PCV valves it is all done internaly with cam phaser timing. and the 3.6 has certainly made sulev same witht he 3500 and 3900 and they did it with out PCV or EGR

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92 LeBaron Convert: Turbo 3L 97 Grand Prix GT 4dr "Frankenstein": L67 4t65 swap
97 Grand Marquis: Summer DD 99 Grand Prix GTP: Top Swap Beater

A turbo 3800 is one of my future projects (I hope). I would love to see what I could do with it considering the N/A 3.8L that the GN version was based off of was far less powerful than the more modern N/A 3800 motors. Mine would be in RWD form though and most likely mated to a manual, or if it had an automatic, would be no less than a 4L80E. FWIW, the newer V6s are considered by GM to be a new family of motor, seperate from the 60* V6 family.

You'll have to share your data on the SULEV ratings because I have not seen any at all. Granted, I haven't dug very deep but I didn't have to dig very deep to know that the 3800 was the first in the industry to achieve that rating.

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98 GTP (RIP 11-5-09); 73 Z28 Camaro (350, TKO 600);01 Monte Carlo SS (L36, L67/L32 hybrid in the future)
"Death smiles at us all; all a man can do is smile back"

I'm staying out of the motors getting more complicated argument, but I am gonna say this: I have never heard a 3.8 that I liked, stock, modded, cammed, exhaust, whatever. The 60*'s in contrast are such beautiful sounding motors, even if they don't go anywhere.

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[url=http://www.xboxlc.com/profile/austin0150]

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LOL I'm the opposite. I've always liked the sound of a 90* V6 (which includes the 4.3L Chevy V6) over that of a 60*. Actually the 4.3L is probably the meanest sounding V6 I've ever heard even though it puts out a ton less HP (although more torque IIRC) than the 3800.

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98 GTP (RIP 11-5-09); 73 Z28 Camaro (350, TKO 600);01 Monte Carlo SS (L36, L67/L32 hybrid in the future)
"Death smiles at us all; all a man can do is smile back"

no idea whay GM considers it a diffrent famialy you can swap heads with the older oens and stuff bolts on silly GM

and the engines have to meet sulev or else california would be screwed all new cars sold there must meat sulev per CAFE regulations or be taxed so high it would not even make sense to sell it there

the 90* can sound mean with true duals and a X pipe

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92 LeBaron Convert: Turbo 3L 97 Grand Prix GT 4dr "Frankenstein": L67 4t65 swap
97 Grand Marquis: Summer DD 99 Grand Prix GTP: Top Swap Beater

Yeah the 3800 can sound pretty mean (my 96 Camaro sounded mean) but the 4.3 takes the cake IMO.



Absolutely love the sound of it.

As far as Cali goes, SULEV gives it a tax credit, which is why vehicles sold there are typically SULEV. So technically, yes taxes are higher, but it's because it's taxed at the "normal" rate if it's not SULEV.

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98 GTP (RIP 11-5-09); 73 Z28 Camaro (350, TKO 600);01 Monte Carlo SS (L36, L67/L32 hybrid in the future)
"Death smiles at us all; all a man can do is smile back"